Author Topic: Upcoming V3 Server - Eden  (Read 1429 times)

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Offline Dredi

Upcoming V3 Server - Eden
« on: May 21, 2018, 06:50:58 pm »
Hello, everyone!

First of all, I know this is going to be long before I post it so a bit of a TL;DR here: I'm creating a new server and messing around with ideas for a few new mechanics. I will need help ranging from feedback to full on volunteer designers and moderators. The server will start relatively vanilla, but I'm open for more radical changes later as far as the engine allows. Read below for further details:

As Dredge is fairly inactive and not actively maintained, I've been working on setting up a V3 server for the last few weeks. I've named the server "Eden" for now, although as it's a bit cheesy for my taste I might end up renaming it later.

The server is already up and running, but currently only available for testers. With the current plan, the server would be live sometime in June, although I'm playing it a bit by ear depending on what kind of feedback I might be getting here.

To give you a bit of background, I'm a fairly capable software developer and system administrator so the technological side of this project won't be a problem. However, I've been out of loop from RPGWO for over 10 years, so I'm unfamiliar with some of the changes done since then. Therefore, I'm looking for people to discuss the server before I lock things down and go live. I need opinions, suggestions and feedback on the server and the changes I've done and will do.

I know some of you use a Facebook group for RPGWO related discussion, but I find Facebook rather distasteful and would rather not make an account even for a project such as this. As such, I've just created a new discord server just minutes ago, which you can join via the discord app or your browser. Feel free to spread the discord link and news about the new server via Facebook, if you're so inclined. Please find the link for Discord below:

https://discord.gg/thKqQu

Feel free to join and have a chat. I can give you a tour of the current test server, talk about the plans for it and listen to any suggestions you might have. In addition, if anyone is interested in volunteering to help with this project, I'd be interested in the following:

- Artists: People who can create original art to update legacy graphics and/or create new assets for quests and dungeons. You might also be able to contribute by gathering and packaging open assets from websites such as https://opengameart.org, if you're at least loosely familiar with shopping sprites and whatnot. Keep in mind the licenses for the art need to be available for me to use for a server such as this.

- Testers: RPGWO players who are familiar with the game and willing to spend some time on the beta version of the server to find bugs, test quests, and just in general play around to see if things work as they should. The server is currently running on elevated XP rates and I will boost skills and stats to help you test and mess around with the server. Characters and the map will be wiped clean at go-live and the server will have a new map generated with the quests and such plugged in afterwards.

- Quest/map designers: Never enough treasure to seek or dungeons to crawl. If you're familiar with the map editor for RPGWO and have a creative mind to design interesting adventures for players, I'd be more than happy to work with you to add new sights and adventures to the world. The map editor is easy to learn, so you can do some things here even if you haven't used it before.

- Moderators/Admins/Etc: Particularly looking for the old, trusted members of the community here. While I'm happy to keep things in check on the server, I can't be around 24/7.

As for the server itself, here's what we currently have:

 - 2000x2000x6 world. I'm a bit worried about the 6 depth. Although the server is performing admirably right now, performance issues may arise later on. I'm also unsure if this will cause gameplay balance issues with mining/smithing. Feedback welcome on this!

- Custom quests and dungeons built from scratch. At release we're currently looking at 2 or 3 dungeons available for low/mid level players, with more added roughly once a month or two. No procedurally generated random caves. I'd appreciate if testers could refrain from posting screenshots of these before the release, though ;)

- No more damon meteorites. Hate running around aimlessly at the mercy of RNGesus? This concept has boss monsters in dungeons and events drop damonite fragments which can be combined to make a full damonite bar. The shards are tradeable, which allow people to sell the shards and guilds to work together to create damon equipment. Boss monsters have long spawn timers, so you won't need to endlessly grind the same mob all day, but rather work with others and hunt them down as they pop up around the world. I'm hoping this will spark a bit of pvp (even guild wars?) as people compete for damonite, and at the same time make quests/dungeons more than just a grindfest. Lots of feedback and balancing needed here.

- Forced PvP from level 6-10ish (just before the first boss monsters become available), but no stealing. This may change to cover only quest areas to allow you to stop people from stealing critical monster spawns, but we will see how this will play out. I think this won't be an issue, but let me know what you think.

And I think that's about it. I'll keep you guys updated on this. Feel free to pop on discord or reply on this post if you have any questions.

Offline Zer0smage

Re: Upcoming V3 Server - Eden
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2018, 03:47:38 am »
I like the idea for no more damonite meteors... I think your idea on this will extend the life of the server by quite a bit... Potentially in a future update make implement something that's stronger than damon or introduces a different play style (something I've been thinking of). But who knows if that'll work or not. I believe we did it in the past with Etheral or whatever it was called.

Force PVP is a good idea, but our community is pretty unforgiving so I think lvl 6-10 is pretty low if you want to do that... Maybe make it 20? Or make it in certain areas. Maybe since your world is 2000x2000 make it anything after 1000x1000 pvp? But who knows, all depends on the community.

I'm sure I have a bunch more stuff but will talk on it at a later date in discord / on the server.

Offline Dredi

Re: Upcoming V3 Server - Eden
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2018, 04:28:10 am »
I like the idea for no more damonite meteors... I think your idea on this will extend the life of the server by quite a bit... Potentially in a future update make implement something that's stronger than damon or introduces a different play style (something I've been thinking of). But who knows if that'll work or not. I believe we did it in the past with Etheral or whatever it was called.

If the server runs for a longer time, something post-damon will have to created for sure. One of the ideas I've been contemplating is keeping damon equipment as the best non-degrable equipment, but add better gear which can't be repaired and would eventually break. You could just add side-grades or flat out better equipment as well, depending on how things work out. That's mostly a worry of the future, though, and won't be an issue for the next months at the very least.

Force PVP is a good idea, but our community is pretty unforgiving so I think lvl 6-10 is pretty low if you want to do that... Maybe make it 20? Or make it in certain areas. Maybe since your world is 2000x2000 make it anything after 1000x1000 pvp? But who knows, all depends on the community.

I am a little bit worried about this as well. For a minute, I was caught with a bit of wishful thinking: "Surely the community has a shred of compassion for newbies". But unfortunately in reality this will certainly be a problem. The only question is how big of a problem this will be. Either way, I am definitely on my toes with this one and adjustments will be done as necessary.

Looking forward to talking to you later.

Offline Greatest

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Re: Upcoming V3 Server - Eden
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2018, 09:11:27 am »
the bigger problem with forced pk servers is crafters getting ganked.  true zer0 has a good idea with part of the world being forced pk instead, but 3/4 is a little much...

also I know this has been said time and time again, but I'm going to repeat it: after a server has been running just so long it is usually a good idea to give it a wipe.  this is especially the case if you're going to add a forced pk aspect to it. 

if not then you get the situation of(3 months into server):
guyA has been killed by guyB
guyB globals: haha you're a noob
guyA globals: I'm sort of new just started playing 3 days ago
guyB globals: I started day 1 and I rule this server....piss off n00b

but if you're open for testing and need people to test out the crafting side(not just fighting) let me know I'm up for some RPGWO!
why does Fox keep cancelling good shows?

Offline Dredi

Re: Upcoming V3 Server - Eden
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2018, 09:55:17 am »
Traders will certainly need a solution, I'll agree with that. Perhaps this is better left as an optional PK flag combined with forced PK in dungeons which give out damonite. Either way, I'll keep the issue in mind and see what we can come up for this.

Hop on the Discord and I can hook you up with testing access.


Offline Gimpy

Re: Upcoming V3 Server - Eden
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2018, 01:18:32 pm »
There are to many flaws with your ideas, let me start with the damonite.

As it goes with any other quest or boss droped item or mob droped item, you forget the basic mechanics of rpgwo. Who ever has the higher stats gets the prize. So if some one is high enough they are going to wolf all over your quest and camp it for damon. The idea of random drop damon is almost perfect. Evens the playing field for all. throw on two run jewels and a trader stands same chances as a lvl 100. (obvios armor and stats come into play a little). So really all your doing is speeding up some ones progression ten fold.

As for pvp. IMO the best way to do it is balance monsters to range from good level for characters 1 threw mid 40s safe from pk. Then all sectors higher then that force pk. So if it was a 10x10 world. Witch is way to big for rpgwos current population, 1x1-5x5 safe. 6x6 and up force pk with higher end monsters ect. Traders shouldnt have an issue because half the world is safe, and if they want to venture further then so be it, cant stop ganking thats just part of the pvp culture. Also pvp in its self in rpgwo wont be perfect untill you fix wall bumping and cave digging in v3.

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Re: Upcoming V3 Server - Eden
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2018, 01:24:56 pm »
PVP and stealing in general are not safe because of fundamental game engine bugs. There's not much point in even attempting to secure a home if people can just pass through any number of walls, pineapple like that.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 01:28:27 pm by Raikaria »

Offline Mickey Kudlo

Re: Upcoming V3 Server - Eden
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2018, 01:47:45 pm »
The previous V3 world, forgot the name, was 2000x2000 and it turned out to be too big for the server to handle. Lag issues and tame animal spawning brought it to it's knees. I highly recommend a smaller main map, like maybe 1400x1400. You can always "attach" floating maps to the edges and expand it... though I never tried. I think I fixed the tame spawning though but other lag issues remained.
You may have conquered my worlds, but I destroyed them!

Offline Greatest

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Re: Upcoming V3 Server - Eden
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2018, 02:26:42 pm »
As for pvp. IMO the best way to do it is balance monsters to range from good level for characters 1 threw mid 40s safe from pk. Then all sectors higher then that force pk. So if it was a 10x10 world. Witch is way to big for rpgwos current population, 1x1-5x5 safe. 6x6 and up force pk with higher end monsters ect. Traders shouldnt have an issue because half the world is safe, and if they want to venture further then so be it, cant stop ganking thats just part of the pvp culture. Also pvp in its self in rpgwo wont be perfect untill you fix wall bumping and cave digging in v3.
that is 3/4 not 1/2!  I agree that half the game world being safe is fine, but only 1/4 is sort of limiting...

Hop on the Discord and I can hook you up with testing access.
I don't use discord, and even if I did I couldn't now...I have a sore throat >:(
why does Fox keep cancelling good shows?

Offline mechanical keyboard enthusiast

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Re: Upcoming V3 Server - Eden
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2018, 03:17:35 pm »


Hop on the Discord and I can hook you up with testing access.
I don't use discord, and even if I did I couldn't now...I have a sore throat >:(
It's text chat in a browser

Offline Dredi

Re: Upcoming V3 Server - Eden
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2018, 06:00:28 pm »
The previous V3 world, forgot the name, was 2000x2000 and it turned out to be too big for the server to handle. Lag issues and tame animal spawning brought it to it's knees. I highly recommend a smaller main map, like maybe 1400x1400. You can always "attach" floating maps to the edges and expand it... though I never tried. I think I fixed the tame spawning though but other lag issues remained.

Did you guys ever figure out what exactly was causing the lag? I'm wondering if there's an alternate solution rather than simply reducing the size of the world. The current server is using almost no resources even without restarts and is displaying no signs of lag. Did the lag only begin after the server had matured a little, with an active playerbase?

Either way, I'll experiment and test "transplanting" extra area to the world. I'm thinking this could either be connected terrain at the edge of the world, or separate landmasses connected via warp. I'll mess around with it on a sandbox environment and see what happens.


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Re: Upcoming V3 Server - Eden
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2018, 07:39:04 pm »
It's text chat in a browser
now I'm wondering what the voice thingy I once used was called...

anyway says the invite link is expired
why does Fox keep cancelling good shows?

Offline Dredi

Re: Upcoming V3 Server - Eden
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2018, 04:08:48 am »
It's text chat in a browser
now I'm wondering what the voice thingy I once used was called...

anyway says the invite link is expired

My bad, I must've not set it to not expire. Here's a new link:
https://discord.gg/jAzaFqd

Offline Saint

Re: Upcoming V3 Server - Eden
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2018, 09:16:02 am »
Hey Dredi, thanks for taking on this big project and making a server for us. So far I haven't really cared for rpgwo v3, something about it just doesn't 'click' for me. I think V2 had a slightly bigger following. Have you thought about making a V2 server with your custom content instead?

Offline Dredi

Re: Upcoming V3 Server - Eden
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2018, 10:28:25 am »
Hey Dredi, thanks for taking on this big project and making a server for us. So far I haven't really cared for rpgwo v3, something about it just doesn't 'click' for me. I think V2 had a slightly bigger following. Have you thought about making a V2 server with your custom content instead?

Possibly - especially if lag on v3 becomes an issue. Everything I've done so far is modular enough for me to port it to v2 with minimal effort if the community prefers that.

I'm not super familiar with v2 myself having missed that era entirely. If there are any major pros/cons for either of them I'd be very interested in hearing about it.

Offline Mickey Kudlo

Re: Upcoming V3 Server - Eden
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2018, 10:58:24 am »
The main lag issue, tame spawning, in V3 also affects V2. Tames like chickens would reproduce unlimited. Players had them in separate floating house maps that were 10x10 and the map would fill up and the system kept trying to add a new one out of bounds and it would lag trying. To fix it, I made tame reproducing require feeding the tame so a player needed to keep an eye on it plus I removed the floating house maps. The V2 files, probably still have all that. Big or small maps have this issue.

The other lag issue with having a big map was too many items needing to be processed. VB6 used in V-1/2/3 just can't multi-task well. V6 using C#, deals with it a lot better and easily can host a 2000x2000 world. There us no fix except have a smaller world.
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Offline Eat Me

Re: Upcoming V3 Server - Eden
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2018, 11:14:51 am »
The main lag issue, tame spawning, in V3 also affects V2. Tames like chickens would reproduce unlimited. Players had them in separate floating house maps that were 10x10 and the map would fill up and the system kept trying to add a new one out of bounds and it would lag trying. To fix it, I made tame reproducing require feeding the tame so a player needed to keep an eye on it plus I removed the floating house maps. The V2 files, probably still have all that. Big or small maps have this issue.

The other lag issue with having a big map was too many items needing to be processed. VB6 used in V-1/2/3 just can't multi-task well. V6 using C#, deals with it a lot better and easily can host a 2000x2000 world. There us no fix except have a smaller world.

This.  I was about to say the same thing.  People griefing with tame spawning is a complete nightmare.

There's not really a flawless way to make damon happen.  If you play a lot every day you have more opportunity to find it if it drops and if you play a lot every day you'll be powerful enough to farm the boss monsters.  It's six in one, half a dozen in the other.  Either way it rewards players for playing and putting in the effort to find the damon. 

I'm really looking forward to seeing how this server turns out.

Cheers

Offline Dredi

Re: Upcoming V3 Server - Eden
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2018, 11:48:21 am »
The main lag issue, tame spawning, in V3 also affects V2. Tames like chickens would reproduce unlimited. Players had them in separate floating house maps that were 10x10 and the map would fill up and the system kept trying to add a new one out of bounds and it would lag trying. To fix it, I made tame reproducing require feeding the tame so a player needed to keep an eye on it plus I removed the floating house maps. The V2 files, probably still have all that. Big or small maps have this issue.

The other lag issue with having a big map was too many items needing to be processed. VB6 used in V-1/2/3 just can't multi-task well. V6 using C#, deals with it a lot better and easily can host a 2000x2000 world. There us no fix except have a smaller world.

This.  I was about to say the same thing.  People griefing with tame spawning is a complete nightmare.


I've been hearing about a number of exploits involving taming. It seems the skill causes a lot of issues and only has a small number of legitimate uses. How big of a deal do you think it would be if we remove the skill entirely?

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Re: Upcoming V3 Server - Eden
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2018, 12:03:55 pm »
I would not care if it was removed, but I'm sure some of the afk training room children would have a big whinge about it

I'm halfway certain you can still tame level 1/level 0 mobs with no tame like chickens or something.

Offline Dredi

Re: Upcoming V3 Server - Eden
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2018, 12:28:54 pm »
I would not care if it was removed, but I'm sure some of the afk training room children would have a big whinge about it

I'm halfway certain you can still tame level 1/level 0 mobs with no tame like chickens or something.

I can render the skill unusable beyond just preventing people from training it, so that's not a problem. I'd just need to know what people used to use it for in the past, to make sure I'm not missing any critical use of the skill here.

 

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