Author Topic: Mage Armor  (Read 161 times)

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Offline Greatest

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Mage Armor
« on: July 07, 2017, 08:14:15 pm »
Soapy made a really good point in another thread, and I thought it needed more input and hopefully gets added.  also yes, I know people have talked about it for ages, but with a new version in the works now seems like the right time.

for now mages are just wearing the same armors as everyone else, just using the lighter versions since they usually have lower strength.  since mana denial is being added to armors in V3, it means mages will be stuck wearing nothing...also on most servers tailor skill isn't too widely used so this gives that skill more usage.

ideas I have so far:
head spot:
tiara-metal, possibly copper/silver/gold lower al than other helmets but no penalties and should give a bonus
miter-lower defense than tiara, but very light.
cowl-thick cloth/leather best al of the 3, but should have some minor drawback(-1 to spell range since it covers the head? or is that just way too much?)

armor spot:
robe-light low al some bonus
tunic-middle al no bonus/penalty
jerkin-thick higher al, with a penalty(-5 run?)

leg spot: I'm stumped

materials(just a list from starter to highest so the tiered system still works):
light cloth
canvas
leather
velvet
suede
fur
thick leather
thick velvet
thick suede
thick fur
padded leather
padded velvet
padded suede
heavy leather
heavy velvet
heavy suede
heavy fur
riveted leather
riveted suede

feel free to add your own ideas as well as saying why mine don't work :P
or do I just not understand role playing games? heh

Offline Thaddeus

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Re: Mage Armor
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2017, 11:13:01 pm »
leather armor does exist so it's not quite like there's no low level option at all, but I certainly see your point, adding some variation to the usual tailor made armors (as far as effective usefulness) is a nice idea.
as to robes, make them occupy both top/bottom equip spots? if that's possible, or have tights/skirts/sarongs/kilts
cloth versions gain some mana renewal
or even have robe versions have mana cost reduction? as well as a penalty to run (if you can make them occupy both armor/leg spots)

Offline Jaster_reylu

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Re: Mage Armor
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2017, 07:49:48 am »
i swear mickey said somewhere about he wants to offset the  mana denial on ore based armors by adding cloth armors with mana renewal


Offline Zodiak

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Re: Mage Armor
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2017, 08:03:27 am »
Regardless if he has said it or not, its definitely should be something he should look into considering the game is kind of based around a classless set up. I like the idea of different advantages and disadvantages to armors. If mana renewal isn't the route maybe increasing the cost of the spell with heavy armor would be a good route.

Offline Thaddeus

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Re: Mage Armor
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2017, 10:36:14 am »
Regardless if he has said it or not, its definitely should be something he should look into considering the game is kind of based around a classless set up. I like the idea of different advantages and disadvantages to armors. If mana renewal isn't the route maybe increasing the cost of the spell with heavy armor would be a good route.

maybe have..
chain=20%mana const inc (per piece)
scale=40% m.....
plate = mana denial
so it's not completely out of the question to use some chain, or not totally out of the question for a melee/ranged char to swap out for red/white, it'll just be more expensive if you're not in a safe place where you could take everything off.

Offline Zodiak

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Re: Mage Armor
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2017, 11:20:23 am »
Regardless if he has said it or not, its definitely should be something he should look into considering the game is kind of based around a classless set up. I like the idea of different advantages and disadvantages to armors. If mana renewal isn't the route maybe increasing the cost of the spell with heavy armor would be a good route.

maybe have..
chain=20%mana const inc (per piece)
scale=40% m.....
plate = mana denial
so it's not completely out of the question to use some chain, or not totally out of the question for a melee/ranged char to swap out for red/white, it'll just be more expensive if you're not in a safe place where you could take everything off.

Any kind of mana denial/renewal would potentially ruin certain aspects of the game yet to be ventured into. The addition to weapons also being wands actually brings forward the use of magic, or "skills", with other weapons. It just all depends on how you set up those style skills/magic and what kind of cost you have them as (assuming the functionality of stamina cost is entered into the magic.ini) otherwise everyone will rely somewhat on mana which isn't a terrible thing to be honest. Which is why I think personally the movement from weapon skills to classes with maybe sub weapon specs (or "mastery") and how defenses work should be changed, but I understand why people like the openness of the game set up like it is.

To go into the thought process of that. If a melee character was wearing plate and was getting mana denial and his magic/skills worked off mana then it would be a disadvantage. You instead make everything a base mana cost increase, lower their mana cost so when wearing plate it's at a suitable number. Sure he can wearing cloth, scale, chain, leather, or whatever but the armor they receive and the protection is too good to pass up. Now you have a Mage style character, their mana cost is on the higher side due to them being pure magic, they wear plate and it becomes inefficient for them to wear the plate, they run out of mana way too quick, but cloth brings their cost way down and with the use of other magics allow them to not the complete disadvantage of having little to no defense.

Obviously if you go the route of classes you can just make the armors set to the class that should be wearing them, actually why I requested with mickey to get a way to set multiple skill requirements in the form of "or" or "and" or even a way to set that option too. Say you add Warrior and Paladin (just an example) you want all the plate armor to have a skillreq= of Warrior OR Paladin.  The Skillreq with a toggle of or/and could make more interesting things down the line where you may need to be a Warrior  AND Alchemist to equip a special ring or something.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 11:30:31 am by Zodiak »

Offline Thaddeus

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Re: Mage Armor
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2017, 03:11:44 pm »
Admittedly I'm not seeing your point, the whole idea was diversifying armor options and choices, so yes, a mage could choose to go for higher defense armor, but it's going to impact mana efficiency, I'm not seeing how that's going to "ruin certain aspects of the game yet to be ventured into". (that phrase sounds kinda nonsensical)

Though I think that having "skills" (spells that require certain weapon/wand types and levels to learn/use) would be neat. (separate "skill" tab even? instead of mashing it all onto the magic tab) would need some other way to go about learning skills though, as runes would make no sense.

as far as melee characters not using skills because of mana denial... you're using hypothetical changes to argue against having plate armor have mana denial? you yourself suggest having skills cost stamina(which i would agree with in that scenario) so... what?

maybe i'm sleep deprived or nutrient deficient or something, confused as to what your actual argument there was. was not aware there was going to be any shift towards class-based characters. (maybe i'm just not in the loop)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 03:13:51 pm by Thaddeus »

Offline Mickey Kudlo

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Re: Mage Armor
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2017, 06:44:34 pm »
Currently...
- the pure metal armors have mana denial, 50% magic AL, 50% elemental AL.
- added studded leather armors (you can see them in V3 test), lower normal AL than pure metal armor, normal Magic AL, normal elemental AL

Here is a middle tier ore Iron example to compare:
Code: [Select]
Item=2561
Name=Iron Studded Chest Armor
;;;
Class=Armor
SubType=Iron Item
SubType=Iron Leather
;;;
Animation0=3421
Burden=300
;;;
ArmorSpot=Chest
ArmorLevel=9
MagicArmorLevel=9
;;;
WearImage=20
BreakId=Broken Iron Item
;;;
Value=300
Group=4

Code: [Select]
Item=8601
Name=Iron Scale Chest
;;;
Class=Armor
SubType=Iron Item
;;;
Animation0=3234
Burden=500
;;;
ArmorSpot=Chest
ArmorLevel=15
MagicArmorLevel=7
;;;
FireAL=-8
ColdAL=-8
ElectricAL=-8
;;;
ManaDenial=4
;;;
WearImage=10
BreakID=Broken Iron Item
;;;
Value=265
Group=4


I do want to add robes that are just for magic users. The would have low normal AL, high magic and elemental AL, and some kinda magic bonus.
Some ideas for magic bonus:
- Mana Well- naturally collects and stores mana that the caster can use, useful for casting mana expensive spells
- Invisibility - when active, works like stealth but if you attack/cast, it gets broken
- Counter Attack - when something attacks you and hits, it attacks back, like an electrified fence but can be any damage type
- Undead - anything undead ignores you unless you attack them
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Offline Zodiak

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Re: Mage Armor
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2017, 07:58:01 pm »
Admittedly I'm not seeing your point, the whole idea was diversifying armor options and choices, so yes, a mage could choose to go for higher defense armor, but it's going to impact mana efficiency, I'm not seeing how that's going to "ruin certain aspects of the game yet to be ventured into". (that phrase sounds kinda nonsensical)

Though I think that having "skills" (spells that require certain weapon/wand types and levels to learn/use) would be neat. (separate "skill" tab even? instead of mashing it all onto the magic tab) would need some other way to go about learning skills though, as runes would make no sense.

as far as melee characters not using skills because of mana denial... you're using hypothetical changes to argue against having plate armor have mana denial? you yourself suggest having skills cost stamina(which i would agree with in that scenario) so... what?

maybe i'm sleep deprived or nutrient deficient or something, confused as to what your actual argument there was. was not aware there was going to be any shift towards class-based characters. (maybe i'm just not in the loop)


Admittedly there was several thoughts all rolled into one thing of text. Was at work, sorry.  I think if Melee/Missile get skills and they use Mana, then Mana denial on the armor they would normally use is a cripple instead of really evening things out..  Hope that atleast makes sense. I'd PREFER them to use Stam.

Offline Greatest

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Re: Mage Armor
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2017, 09:13:07 pm »
this thread went sideways fast...

I do want to add robes that are just for magic users. The would have low normal AL, high magic and elemental AL, and some kinda magic bonus.
Some ideas for magic bonus:
- Mana Well- naturally collects and stores mana that the caster can use, useful for casting mana expensive spells
- Invisibility - when active, works like stealth but if you attack/cast, it gets broken
- Counter Attack - when something attacks you and hits, it attacks back, like an electrified fence but can be any damage type
- Undead - anything undead ignores you unless you attack them
all those could work in the enchantment thread too.  some I already posted over there(different names), so go read it. 
or do I just not understand role playing games? heh

Offline Soapy

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Re: Mage Armor
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2017, 06:01:36 pm »
this thread went sideways fast...

I do want to add robes that are just for magic users. The would have low normal AL, high magic and elemental AL, and some kinda magic bonus.
Some ideas for magic bonus:
- Mana Well- naturally collects and stores mana that the caster can use, useful for casting mana expensive spells
- Invisibility - when active, works like stealth but if you attack/cast, it gets broken
- Counter Attack - when something attacks you and hits, it attacks back, like an electrified fence but can be any damage type
- Undead - anything undead ignores you unless you attack them
all those could work in the enchantment thread too.  some I already posted over there(different names), so go read it. 

I really like this idea from Mick. It's on the right track. My question to him though is, does the ManaDenial on the armor act like a spell and recast itself? Or is it more passive and is automatically recognized by the client that your char needs to have that effect? So as to say, the invisibility on mage robes, how long would it take to re-activate and stealth you again after it was broken by an attack? Instantly? Normal 1 second usage delay? Defaulted 4 Seconds? I think this would need to be regulated, otherwise training for a mage would be extremely easy if you always re-stealthed instantly after an attach and a mob can't scan you because it's a passive effect. Or would they be able to scan you? If so how is scan lvl determined? Might be going into too much detail here but some thoughts
Yee...

 

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