Author Topic: Weapon Balance (and other things)  (Read 181 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Thaddeus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: -1
    • View Profile

  • Total Badges: 24
    Badges: (View All)
    Linux User Mobile User Level 5
Weapon Balance (and other things)
« on: July 04, 2017, 03:30:42 pm »
as a precursor, love most of the changes I've seen as yet, and interested in some of the things I've read about that are yet to be implemented.

a few weapons(at the time of writing this) have some balance issues as I see it. most of the weapon types have their own advantage, mace/axe/flail/scythe/staff/spear all have advantages that make them unique, I see problems with Sword, Unarmed, and the current 2handed magic staff(as compared to the 1h magic staff)

Sword: same average damage and speed as the other main weapons, without any secondary benefit
Unarmed: same as sword same average, with not secondary benefit
2h Magic staff: as of now, it's a single damage and some WAL over the one handed variant, but also has an extra second delay for magic attacks, just doesn't seem warranted

suggestions for fixing these issues
sword: admittedly not sure what could fix this, having it be a hybrid weapon with a minor crit% and weapon AL? give it a slight rating boost to offset the lack of a secondary ability?
add inherent poison to function as a bleed? that would suit the weapon, or adding a separate bleed function that has stacking effects, removable only with first aid or a white spell
I think the bleed option would fit the weapon style best, but would probably also be the most work for you, though it would give first aid an active role, especially if some mobs were given this property.

Unarmed: lower the speed to 1(and damage accordingly to keep rating) this gives it higher rating when boosted with blue magic , or change the innate unarmed damage formula in some way, which currently doesn't do much even as a deity, unsure of how it's calculated now, some way to trade off the lack of equipment (not having to repair your fist isn't really much of an argument when considering higher level equipment)
even leaving the claws as they are and changing how the unarmed(fist) damage is calculated would be good, leaving the choice between a claw that can be +'d and a UA bonus, or your fist which is faster and damage that grows as you level.

2h Magic staff: maybe just a small raise to the magic power? or even lowering the 1h staff variants magic power, some way to make the choice between the 2 something to consider. as it is now, the minor damage difference and weapon AL isn't worth the extra cast delay. maybe switch it around where the 1h staff has higher cast delay




something of a side-note, what's intended with the zephyrium alloys? (just curious, haven't found any use for them at the moment)
(lurking for 10 years, first time i posted apparently, HAH)

Offline Jaster_reylu

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 78
  • Karma: -7
    • View Profile

  • Total Badges: 18
    Badges: (View All)
    Karma Quick Poster Level 4
Re: Weapon Balance (and other things)
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2017, 10:33:57 am »
the zephy stuff was added along time ago, its the remains of some old stuff that he is probly going to remove.

long itme ago, mickey added an essence steal spell, the zephy ore was added so a blacksmith could combine it with whatever ore, then make a weapon out of the alloy which would have the same essence steal

Offline Mickey Kudlo

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Karma: 23
    • MSN Messenger - mkudlo@hotmail.com
    • View Profile
    • http://www.rpgwo.com
    • Email

  • Total Badges: 38
    Badges: (View All)
    10 Poll Votes 10 Polls Nineth year Anniversary
Re: Weapon Balance (and other things)
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2017, 12:40:27 pm »
Swords: They have unique damage type Cut/Thrust/Bash. Cutting blade, thrusting point and flip on its flat side to get bash.

Unarmed: You never need a weapon, it never breaks or needs repairs. The cestus, claw and katar give the 3 different damage types, giving an advantage too.

Magic Staff: yeah, I can see I need to adjust the 1H down or the 2H up. Maybe remove the 1H AL and lower 2H cast time a bit.
You may have conquered my worlds, but I destroyed them!

Offline Greatest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1246
  • Karma: 13
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm better than you!
    • View Profile

  • Total Badges: 35
    Badges: (View All)
    Nineth year Anniversary 10 Poll Votes Invisible
Re: Weapon Balance (and other things)
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2017, 05:44:58 pm »
Unarmed: You never need a weapon, it never breaks or needs repairs. The cestus, claw and katar give the 3 different damage types, giving an advantage too.
is this something new you've done in V3?  I know in V1/V2 if you don't have a weapon equipped while using unarmed you don't receive xp for the skill.   the main reason I think so many people have complained about the name over the years...

if you actually can use the unarmed skill while unarmed it will add a new bit of strangeness to the game, I know if someone has an attack skill(no matter what it is) the number shown in their assess for that skill will be what is used when attacking unarmed in V1/V2(ie if you have 200 flail, but don't have a weapon equipped you can still punch things with 100 defense)...so this would be something else to look over if you did make the change in the unarmed skill.
or do I just not understand role playing games? heh

Offline Jaster_reylu

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 78
  • Karma: -7
    • View Profile

  • Total Badges: 18
    Badges: (View All)
    Karma Quick Poster Level 4
Re: Weapon Balance (and other things)
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2017, 06:07:44 pm »
im failing to see the advantage of sword and unarmed still.

i understand they have the different damage types...but to what point?

a long time ago in a rpgwo world far far away....there were strengths and weaknesses to each armor, chain having a thrust weakness...hessite having electric weakness... ect... currently however all the armors have is a burden differences.

so now u go and make monsters, give them armor (or dont as with of the recent many lazy @@@'s havnt) whats the difference if my dmg type is cut thrust bash fire frost magic or electric?

used to be as a black mage u go off to train on some wolf...assess ur target see what armor they wearing and choose spell to use mana as effeciently as possible.


Offline Zodiak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 630
  • Karma: -1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile

  • Total Badges: 33
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Level 6 Nineth year Anniversary
Re: Weapon Balance (and other things)
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2017, 08:16:28 am »
Any kind of "lazy @@@" is probably based on the effort/reward you get from working on a server and, though seemingly changed now, the support from the game dev.

From experience over the years, you don't really know how demoralizing it is when you send messages regarding support, even when he's in his actual "Im going to dev!!" bi-annual moods and not getting a message back because.. well lord knows why. Maybe I think negatively, but I assume 90% of the time it's not his "vision" or a "tl;dr" situation. I have so many examples of this it's a bit insane that I even bother to stick around sometime.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 08:20:57 am by Zodiak »

Offline Jaster_reylu

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 78
  • Karma: -7
    • View Profile

  • Total Badges: 18
    Badges: (View All)
    Karma Quick Poster Level 4
Re: Weapon Balance (and other things)
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2017, 06:18:07 pm »
so ur blaming mickeys absence or lack of help for @@@'s not putting armor on mobs?

thats pretty tigered up lol


Offline Zodiak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 630
  • Karma: -1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile

  • Total Badges: 33
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Level 6 Nineth year Anniversary
Re: Weapon Balance (and other things)
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2017, 07:42:18 am »
Am I blaming the game dev for partial reason for some "laziness" from @@@ where they may not put 100% effort into their servers?  Yes.

There is more to it, of course, but I feel like its reasonable to put some blame on him. The reason every server is pretty much a copy/paste of each other is there is only a select few that is willing to even work on one, but going through the effort of balancing armors on mobs and stuff just becomes not worth it when you can't add other things to the game without it breaking it someway or having to rig it.

Personally for me at least its a morale thing, if I had more support from Mickey I'd be willing to work on what I had going. I didn't even care the player base at the time of opening, but taking my time to send ideas to Mickey and getting nothing, not a rebuttal, agreement, or input at all really just kills my mood to even help make a server that may drum up some of the player base back. 

Offline Soapy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 45
  • Karma: -7
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile

  • Total Badges: 28
    Badges: (View All)
    Karma Good Search Karma
Re: Weapon Balance (and other things)
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2017, 05:19:35 pm »
Am I blaming the game dev for partial reason for some "laziness" from @@@ where they may not put 100% effort into their servers?  Yes.

There is more to it, of course, but I feel like its reasonable to put some blame on him. The reason every server is pretty much a copy/paste of each other is there is only a select few that is willing to even work on one, but going through the effort of balancing armors on mobs and stuff just becomes not worth it when you can't add other things to the game without it breaking it someway or having to rig it.

Personally for me at least its a morale thing, if I had more support from Mickey I'd be willing to work on what I had going. I didn't even care the player base at the time of opening, but taking my time to send ideas to Mickey and getting nothing, not a rebuttal, agreement, or input at all really just kills my mood to even help make a server that may drum up some of the player base back. 


I don't get your point whatsoever. If you were to email me acting all whiny like this, i wouldn't reply either. Mick made it clear a long time ago he wasn't updating and adding anything to V1 or V2 anymore as he had newer other visions. This is also when he made the server files available for anyone to download and create their own server if they like. I understand the frustration of not being able to truly change things like you imagine because it takes the dev to hard code stuff, but that's the decision you made to either host or admin a game that the dev has said he is not updating anymore. YOU make the choice to run or host a server, not him. So don't whine about him not getting back to you, when it doesn't concern him.

And @@@'s being lazy and not adding armor to mob's is in no way mickey deal either. It's your lazy ass for half assing something instead of going all in, because "I didn't have help -cry face-". Seeing as everything I've ever seen you implement has always been broken from the start, i find all your points and suggestions, invalid.

Also, the reason almost all servers are the same is because one person puts a TON of effort into reworking everything, while working with what they have - not bitching about what they can't get. It then succeeds, and others copy it. Because they are lazy and won't re-balance things themselves. Everyone thinks they can be an admin, until they become one. The best Admins, are the one's who don't want to be one.
Yee...
Agree Agree x 2 View List

Offline Thaddeus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: -1
    • View Profile

  • Total Badges: 24
    Badges: (View All)
    Linux User Mobile User Level 5
Re: Weapon Balance (and other things)
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2017, 05:55:14 pm »
Swords: They have unique damage type Cut/Thrust/Bash. Cutting blade, thrusting point and flip on its flat side to get bash.

Unarmed: You never need a weapon, it never breaks or needs repairs. The cestus, claw and katar give the 3 different damage types, giving an advantage too.

Magic Staff: yeah, I can see I need to adjust the 1H down or the 2H up. Maybe remove the 1H AL and lower 2H cast time a bit.
I guess my only query would be how a triple damage type is affected by armor, though i'm not totally clear on the interactions between that anymore anyway, been away too long.
While I disagree about unarmed, i feel like i brought this up years ago and got a similar response... so... oh well, I still feel like the inherent damage formula needs some tweaks.
Not too sure what magic staves need, but removing the weapon AL from the one-handers does sound good.

]is this something new you've done in V3?  I know in V1/V2 if you don't have a weapon equipped while using unarmed you don't receive xp for the skill.   the main reason I think so many people have complained about the name over the years...

if you actually can use the unarmed skill while unarmed it will add a new bit of strangeness to the game, I know if someone has an attack skill(no matter what it is) the number shown in their assess for that skill will be what is used when attacking unarmed in V1/V2(ie if you have 200 flail, but don't have a weapon equipped you can still punch things with 100 defense)...so this would be something else to look over if you did make the change in the unarmed skill.
unarmed does indeed give exp with fists, though when starting out it's so minor it's seriously impractical to level the skill like that(due to damage etc)


as to the rest... >_> , if you wanna be an admin and run a server, either be lazy and have a crappy server, or put in the work and don't? dev doesn't even come into the equation for an unsupported(so to say) product

Offline Zodiak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 630
  • Karma: -1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile

  • Total Badges: 33
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Level 6 Nineth year Anniversary
Re: Weapon Balance (and other things)
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2017, 05:59:36 pm »
Am I blaming the game dev for partial reason for some "laziness" from @@@ where they may not put 100% effort into their servers?  Yes.

There is more to it, of course, but I feel like its reasonable to put some blame on him. The reason every server is pretty much a copy/paste of each other is there is only a select few that is willing to even work on one, but going through the effort of balancing armors on mobs and stuff just becomes not worth it when you can't add other things to the game without it breaking it someway or having to rig it.

Personally for me at least its a morale thing, if I had more support from Mickey I'd be willing to work on what I had going. I didn't even care the player base at the time of opening, but taking my time to send ideas to Mickey and getting nothing, not a rebuttal, agreement, or input at all really just kills my mood to even help make a server that may drum up some of the player base back. 


I don't get your point whatsoever. If you were to email me acting all whiny like this, i wouldn't reply either. Mick made it clear a long time ago he wasn't updating and adding anything to V1 or V2 anymore as he had newer other visions. This is also when he made the server files available for anyone to download and create their own server if they like. I understand the frustration of not being able to truly change things like you imagine because it takes the dev to hard code stuff, but that's the decision you made to either host or admin a game that the dev has said he is not updating anymore. YOU make the choice to run or host a server, not him. So don't whine about him not getting back to you, when it doesn't concern him.

And @@@'s being lazy and not adding armor to mob's is in no way mickey deal either. It's your lazy ass for half assing something instead of going all in, because "I didn't have help -cry face-". Seeing as everything I've ever seen you implement has always been broken from the start, i find all your points and suggestions, invalid.

Also, the reason almost all servers are the same is because one person puts a TON of effort into reworking everything, while working with what they have - not bitching about what they can't get. It then succeeds, and others copy it. Because they are lazy and won't re-balance things themselves. Everyone thinks they can be an admin, until they become one. The best Admins, are the one's who don't want to be one.

You have to be trolling right? Nothing whiny here at all, voicing an opinion based on my experience with Mickey, even as far as the times that he was in full dev mode of 1.15 and 2. I distinctly remember having access to working on one of his first Mission servers and when I approached him with gfx and code to change things up a bit he "didn't feel like dealing with updating it" so I immediately dropped out of the project because I don't want to half ass something I work on. Its indeed frustrating working on something that the owner seems to want to half ass even when you do give a wolf about his game and community. From my view people don't bother putting a full amount of effort into these when the guy that owns the game and should want his work to be seen and played doesn't always seem to care when there is a small community trying to make that happen.

YOUAREVERYSMART! You told me some sort of history about RPGWO.. lol?

Offline Thaddeus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: -1
    • View Profile

  • Total Badges: 24
    Badges: (View All)
    Linux User Mobile User Level 5
Re: Weapon Balance (and other things)
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2017, 06:35:37 pm »
this feels like it got derailed...
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline Zodiak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 630
  • Karma: -1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile

  • Total Badges: 33
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Level 6 Nineth year Anniversary
Re: Weapon Balance (and other things)
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2017, 06:51:31 pm »
It definitely did and I apologize. I overall agree that the game needs more layers.
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline Mickey Kudlo

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1373
  • Karma: 23
    • MSN Messenger - mkudlo@hotmail.com
    • View Profile
    • http://www.rpgwo.com
    • Email

  • Total Badges: 38
    Badges: (View All)
    10 Poll Votes 10 Polls Nineth year Anniversary
Re: Weapon Balance (and other things)
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2017, 06:22:32 pm »
 @Zodiak, the easiest way for me to explain is.... Real Life. It will always have priority over my game dev. When all you veterans were teenagers, you didn't understand that much. I would think you have some kinda understanding now that you are all 20+ and even 30+ (ok, some are 40+ with me). Oh well.

Also, I am getting a creepy vibe from you...heh... like we dated a couple of times then I stopped answering your calls.   ;)

I can only do so much but I do plan to release the server3.exe very soon, probably after I open Upira, and will listen to code requests as best as I can.


A word about Sword Cut/Thrust/Bash damage... the server determines the best damage type against a target and uses that.

The way I feel about admins is, at this point players don't need policing... they need content and quests that tiger them up.
You may have conquered my worlds, but I destroyed them!

Offline Jaster_reylu

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 78
  • Karma: -7
    • View Profile

  • Total Badges: 18
    Badges: (View All)
    Karma Quick Poster Level 4
Re: Weapon Balance (and other things)
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2017, 06:51:52 pm »
Also, I am getting a creepy vibe from you...heh... like we dated a couple of times then I stopped answering your calls.   ;)

LOL

Offline Zodiak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 630
  • Karma: -1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile

  • Total Badges: 33
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Level 6 Nineth year Anniversary
Re: Weapon Balance (and other things)
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2017, 07:54:05 pm »

Also, I am getting a creepy vibe from you...heh... like we dated a couple of times then I stopped answering your calls.   ;)


You don't look at me while we make love anymore. :(
I'm impatient, thats my bad. Lol

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
10 Replies
1025 Views
Last post April 13, 2006, 11:50:00 am
by Pirate Wings
22 Replies
2622 Views
Last post February 18, 2007, 03:41:43 pm
by Pepin
Some things

Started by Zodiak « 1 2 3 » RPGWO 2

45 Replies
3553 Views
Last post January 24, 2008, 05:31:26 pm
by Emrys Merlin
3 Replies
2859 Views
Last post June 22, 2013, 04:44:16 am
by Greatest
things

Started by Jaster_reylu « 1 2 » RPGWO V3

20 Replies
224 Views
Last post July 01, 2017, 11:30:57 am
by Soapy