Author Topic: Community  (Read 5006 times)

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Offline Roarion

Re: Community
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2015, 08:12:26 pm »
Roarion, if a level 80 player can do it all. The system is broken.

A level 80 should be a grand-master in his/her skills.

Being able to do it all, in any capacity wrecks and general economy for everyone.

A cap of say, 60 skills points (total) would probably relieve most of the economic problems. Having the skill points in at 1 for every 4 levels would make it so levels are still meaningful at higher levels. Maybe even remove the need for a cap as a level 80 would only have acpigulated 19-20 extra points.

I do understand the direction the game is currently in, but that is not where we want to go, is it?

No the system isn't broken, I don't think you understood my post.

If there is 1 person who plays and is able to get level 80, #soloPlayRPGWO2015 then that person should be able to use all the skills.

If there are 50 fighters who can get to level 80 in a high population server, then those level 80 fighters shouldn't be able to craft everything, maybe only a level 120 could.

Convenience is part of it also. As a fighter if I can make decent money i'm not going to waste time making potions/armor/etc, I have better skills I can spend my time training.

The amount of skills you can train at a certain level should scale with number of players, and the capacity that those players can play to.
Asylum - lvl 33 Thrower
Pyramid - lvl 40 Scythe
Dementia - lvl 69 Spear
Nexus V2 - lvl 61 Stealth
Rebirth - lvl 72 Bow
Ganymede - lvl 56 Mage
Hex - lvl 1000 Admin
Future - lvl 1000 Admin
Retired - Unless V6 pulls a miracle

Offline Mongo

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Re: Community
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2015, 08:04:13 am »
So you're saying on a low population server, skills should be more easily obtained. On a high population server, they should be more restricted...

So how do you know whether there's going to be a lot of people playing on your server when you set it up?



If there is 1 person who plays and is able to get level 80, #soloPlayRPGWO2015 then that person should be able to use all the skills.

Also, I disagree with this. Even solo, if you're the only person online, I don't think the server should be balanced to make it so you can do everything.
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Offline Naed

Re: Community
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2015, 08:14:59 am »
Yeah, if you can do it all, you wont nag your friends into trying this awesome game.

Offline Mickey Kudlo

Re: Community
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2015, 11:16:29 am »
I think Roarion nailed it on the head for V1/V2. It all depends on how busy the server is, in order to balance skill purchase costs assuming 1 skill point per level. Maybe skill costs could be economy based? Supply and demand?
The more people that train a certain skill, the more costly it becomes for everyone else. Like for every 10 people that train Sword, the cost goes up a point. Once per every 2 real weeks, lower all skill costs by 1 point to a minimum of 1 cost. Not sure about this idea though.

I think we keep the V1/V2 skill system and wait to see what my dynamic NPC ideas does to things. In theory, a dedicated warrior playing by themselves, should be able to get any goods or services from the NPCs. I plan to have it where if players don't build a town, the NPCs will build it. So a warrior could ignore all that jazz and eventually get higher level services.

So, I will code 1 skill point per level, set skill point costs back to V1/V2 and I need to expand the player level XP a bit since it was lowered to accomodate auto-skill learning and attribute raising on level, not thru spending xp.
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Offline Mongo

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Re: Community
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2015, 11:23:19 am »
I think the term "self sufficient" is being stretched quite a bit in this thread. If you're a warrior and you can make your own equipment and food, I think this should satisfy the goal. You have the means to defend yourself, kill stuff and keep yourself alive.

Why is it a single player would need to be able to train all skills? Just because there are no other players on doesn't mean one person needs to be able to wield every weapon, use every magic and craft every item. I thoroughly don't understand this mentality.
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Offline Kaios

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Re: Community
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2015, 01:44:40 pm »
RPGWO worlds have been getting better and better with more features, things to do, etc. The only difference is that enough people played back then that you could pick any build, rely on others, and provide use to someone.

I would not say that is entirely true. Sure, some admins and I include yourself in that list have done an excellent job at creating worlds that are both enjoyable and the level of difficulty is at a point where most goals aren't too hard to accomplish over time but it is not so easy that you have level 20+ or 30+ within the first few days.

Part of the blame towards the deterioration of the community falls upon the admins who have spoiled their players with easy, poorly done worlds which are usually also a repeat of so many servers before them. If I were to count using my fingers the number of worlds that died out simply because of a lack of players despite the amount of effort, new/unique content and pretty much love and care that was put towards them I would need more than two hands to do so. It is a sad state of affairs when there are more players on a server where the admin(s) is/are so incompetent that they can't even figure out how to correctly change the ore rarity instead of one where the admin actually knows what they are doing and adds interesting content on a regular basis.

Another part of the blame falls on Mickey for allowing these people to put their servers on the list in the first place. As an example, there was always this scenario that seemed to occur quite often and of course still does. The scenario I am referring to is when a server on the list has ran the course of its lifetime and another player finally decides they would like to take the time to get a new one going. Let's call this player, Player A. Player A posts on the forum that they are going to create a server, explains what type, details some of the features, etc. and asks for input regarding what should be included. Player A completes the server and puts it on the list. One week later Player B comes along, sends an e-mail to Mickey, doesn't post on the forum (or facebook) and voila they have a garbage can server on the list ready to steal players away from the good one.

Maybe this would have been fine when we actually had players 10 or so years ago but the fact that this has continued all the way up to 2015 with the 10-20 remaining players is just ridiculous. I understand everyone has different ideals for they want to see in a server but sometimes they don't even give a server a chance before completely blowing it off.

Another factor I have noticed that only perpetuates the current "lack of players" situation we are stuck in is that most players tend to log in to a server and if they see that nobody or only very few players are on, they immediately dismiss the server as dead and it's likely you won't see them on it again. How many players do you think a server has lost because of this one?

Why is it a single player would need to be able to train all skills? Just because there are no other players on doesn't mean one person needs to be able to wield every weapon, use every magic and craft every item. I thoroughly don't understand this mentality.

Again, players have been spoiled by easy worlds that allow for all of this. Some might think, "Well I don't want to play a world where I am grinding all day, this game isn't THAT fun." To them I say, why play at all then if you want everything to be easy for you? That is not fun to me.
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Offline Roarion

Re: Community
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2015, 04:46:27 pm »
So you're saying on a low population server, skills should be more easily obtained. On a high population server, they should be more restricted...

So how do you know whether there's going to be a lot of people playing on your server when you set it up?

Considering 'test servers' are going to be coming out, I think it would be pretty easy to open a server and then go from that point on how you balance skills. The majority of people are done playing a server within the first month, the rest last 2-3 months to the server end.

I think a wipe would be acceptable every 1-3 months at the start, or more then 1 server could be run with adjusted systems that would eventually replace the old one while new things are confirmed working.

Heck, http://playrust.com/ wipes every month in its early access state and the player base has no issues with it. Half of the fun in RPGWO is starting out.
I don't think the skill system is a "write once and done" concept rather something that will need to be tuned as the games played.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 04:48:20 pm by Roarion »
Asylum - lvl 33 Thrower
Pyramid - lvl 40 Scythe
Dementia - lvl 69 Spear
Nexus V2 - lvl 61 Stealth
Rebirth - lvl 72 Bow
Ganymede - lvl 56 Mage
Hex - lvl 1000 Admin
Future - lvl 1000 Admin
Retired - Unless V6 pulls a miracle

Offline Greatest

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Re: Community
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2015, 05:10:15 pm »
I think a wipe would be acceptable every 1-3 months at the start, or more then 1 server could be run with adjusted systems that would eventually replace the old one while new things are confirmed working.
best idea to come out of this thread...

@Mickey, would that point cost be just for training a skill in game, or would it also affect starting costs of a skill?  because if I'm the 12th person to create a character on a server and everyone decided to start with mining making mining cost go up to 16(starting at 4 points right?) then what would be the point of trying to play that server?
why does Fox keep cancelling good shows?

Offline Mickey Kudlo

Re: Community
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2015, 05:44:39 pm »
@Kaios, YEAH! I knew you were out there someplace. Thank you for contributing. :)

@Greatest, I think the variable skill cost idea is bad, just never mind. Bad Mickey, bad!

For alpha/beta development, a wipe every month sounds pretty normal. For release, I can see a wipe every 3 months. That could be a selling feature? Players could carry over too, just wipe the world. With a sandbox world, at some point, it gets fully built, to some extent, so a wipe allows newer players to get in at the beginning within a reasonable time. Maybe for each level your  last player was, you get 1000 xp which levels your new player and gives you spendable XP and more skill points right away. The way I am coding world creation being mostly automated, it facilitates wiping often, makes it easier.
You may have conquered my worlds, but I destroyed them!

Offline Greatest

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Re: Community
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2015, 07:04:37 pm »
I think your last faction server proved if you wipe the world, you need to wipe players too!

why does Fox keep cancelling good shows?

Offline Sacrifice

Re: Community
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2015, 12:46:57 am »
Lol yeah, I remember on that server the first time it wiped I was so high level that within 4 hours of it being wiped i had destroyed all the other factions

Offline Kaios

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Re: Community
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2015, 08:16:37 am »
Half of the fun in RPGWO is starting out.

I agree with this, it is similar to lego in that you build it up and break it back down again to do something new/different/better.

Like a lot of other games I've played this one tends to be most fun in the early stages (at least in my opinion) as that is when this sort of "rat race" occurs and it feels like you're competing the most with players at that time. As worlds drag on most of them get quite boring unless there is some decent PvP action going which these days is usually not the case.

What I don't understand is how some refuse to let their pixels go after it is clear a server is past its prime. tigering move on to something different so everyone else can get a chance at playing too you losers. I hate hearing "as long as people are still playing we will keep it up" even if that means there is literally one person that logs in to the world on a regular basis. Absolutely no thought involved in that logic.

Anyways,

@Kaios, YEAH! I knew you were out there someplace. Thank you for contributing. :)

Well what the tiger do you expect walrus, I had made it quite clear that I was willing to contribute not only in terms of money but also the knowledge I've acquired over the years as well.

All of the points I had made in the past regarding this game have almost all turned out to be true and I feel I have proven I can articulate myself in an intelligent manner so honestly what else does a guy need to do for you to take his input seriously?

I am not going to make positive contributions like ideas, suggestions, etc. if you aren't also willing to listen to the negative aspects that you seriously need to resolve before having people pay for something new.
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Offline Mickey Kudlo

Re: Community
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2015, 10:36:38 am »
The more I think about full auto-wipes, the more excited I am getting. It opens the door to major, catastrophic events that I won't feel bad about destroying players land, heh.
You may have conquered my worlds, but I destroyed them!

Offline Naed

Re: Community
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2015, 10:54:20 am »
Oh wow that is exciting, can turn the wipes into worldwide events.

Example:
Meteor World Wipe:
For the last 7 days leading up to the wipe meteor strikes become more and more frequent. Eventually occurring every minute, or less? Meteors might spawn spirits on impact, the aliens are too weird.

Jurassic Rift Wipe:
Rifts in time open and massive amounts of super powerful dinosaurs begin to emerge, they crush structures and attack on sight.

/place_beacon - Only possible on claimed land. Will draw in all apocalyptic creatures within a set distance. Will start a timer, once the beacon is destroyed, the timer stops and this is your score. Creatures will destroy your structures to get to the beacon. Structures would need to have massive hit-points, say 10,000 for a stone wall, 1,000 for a wood one? No defense skill. Only possible during world catastrophes. The siege would occur even when the player is offline.

Might even make the wipes rewarded events, giving the top 3 survivors (based on some metric) a trophy or permanent perk. +10 health points at character creation or maybe a replaceable trophy tied to the account? Or perhaps a special mule that's a dinosaur? Maybe an extra land plot?

New topic?

Offline Greatest

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Re: Community
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2015, 06:51:33 pm »
I agree with this, it is similar to lego in that you build it up and break it back down again to do something new/different/better.
you said that on the HnH forum and I'll tell you the same thing I told you there: legos suck!  you build something with legos and knock it over its still in 1 piece(maybe 2), but wood blocks splatter all over the place when you knock them over!

maybe I'll make a video next time I get stuck babysitting my nephew, but we always end up building wood block castles then taking them out with a little popsiclestick/rubberband catapult...fun stuff!
why does Fox keep cancelling good shows?

Offline Kaios

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Re: Community
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2015, 07:50:49 pm »
legos suck!  you build something with legos and knock it over its still in 1 piece(maybe 2), but wood blocks splatter all over the place when you knock them over!

maybe I'll make a video next time I get stuck babysitting my nephew, but we always end up building wood block castles then taking them out with a little popsiclestick/rubberband catapult...fun stuff!

Well you're right the breaking apart was not that fun but legos were awesome because of all the possibilities you had with them. I would build castles, cities, cars, boats, airplanes, spaceships and plenty of other things that honestly I cannot remember but I'm sure it's a factor in why I am so interested in sandbox games now.
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