Author Topic: Community  (Read 5007 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Naed

Community
« on: June 04, 2015, 11:54:26 am »
I needed one central location to rant on this topic I hold as paramount importance. As I keep spreading this though to all threads.

As I see it, a community is a group of people, dependent on one another to survive, or to survive comfortably.

When I left RPGWO all sense of community was gone, as I see V2 now. Each player had/has their homestead, and zero need of anyone else to manage it.

Back in the day, I remember having to find a farmer to clear my land, a carpenter or mason to build my home. A locksmith to lock it up, and a blacksmith to build my chests. At the time I left the game, no had no reason to speak to anyone, for any reason, and it really killed the game for me.

The simplest options to separate classes for me, is to greatly decrease skill point gained per level, and/or increase the cost of training skills after character creation.

If someone builds a Warrior, it should not be a simple task to get all the skills required to survive.
Warriors should need to fight to get gold, to buy food and equipment.
End game game warriors should be very difficult to take down, with the ability to take massive amounts of damage, and deal massive melee damage, all while having great defenses.

If someone builds a Ranger, it should not be a simple task to get all the skills required to survive.
Rangers should need to hunt to get gold, to buy food and equipment.
End game rangers should deal massive ranged damage, and have great mobility, and great defenses.

If someone builds a Wizard, it should not be a simple task to get all the skills required to survive.
Wizards should need to use their unique abilities to get gold, to buy runes and food.
Wizards end game should deal massive magic damage, and have the ability to heal and boost, traditionally they will have very weak melee and missile defenses, as well as a lower health pool.

If someone builds a Strength Trader, it should be a fairly simple task to get all the skills required to survive.
Strength Traders should need to use their unique abilities to get gold, to buy food and protection.
Strength Traders end game should be able to amass a massive fortune, and reside in a large castle, masterfully crafted and decorated with his greatest creations.

If someone builds a Intelligence Trader, it should be a simple task to get all the skills required to survive.
OK, so this is the exception. An intellect trader can traditionally survive happily in a non PK world, they should need assistance to clear monsters from their land, and periodically will need to trade with a Strength trader to get the tools they need to do their work but other than this, they can make food and sell food, and should live a long happy life. Think farmville here.
Intelligence Traders end game should be able to amass a massive fortune, and reside on a homestead, with meticulously manicured grounds, and creatures from all ends of the world to keep them safe.

At what point did everyone need to reach all of these goals at the same time? I can't specifically identify when it became commonplace, but it's when I lost interest. I also believe it should be a long journey to the end, if I am there in a month, whats next?

Offline Roarion

Re: Community
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2015, 12:23:36 pm »
I needed one central location to rant on this topic I hold as paramount importance. As I keep spreading this though to all threads.

As I see it, a community is a group of people, dependent on one another to survive, or to survive comfortably.

When I left RPGWO all sense of community was gone, as I see V2 now. Each player had/has their homestead, and zero need of anyone else to manage it.

Back in the day, I remember having to find a farmer to clear my land, a carpenter or mason to build my home. A locksmith to lock it up, and a blacksmith to build my chests. At the time I left the game, no had no reason to speak to anyone, for any reason, and it really killed the game for me.

The simplest options to separate classes for me, is to greatly decrease skill point gained per level, and/or increase the cost of training skills after character creation.

If someone builds a Warrior, it should not be a simple task to get all the skills required to survive.
Warriors should need to fight to get gold, to buy food and equipment.
End game game warriors should be very difficult to take down, with the ability to take massive amounts of damage, and deal massive melee damage, all while having great defenses.

If someone builds a Ranger, it should not be a simple task to get all the skills required to survive.
Rangers should need to hunt to get gold, to buy food and equipment.
End game rangers should deal massive ranged damage, and have great mobility, and great defenses.

If someone builds a Wizard, it should not be a simple task to get all the skills required to survive.
Wizards should need to use their unique abilities to get gold, to buy runes and food.
Wizards end game should deal massive magic damage, and have the ability to heal and boost, traditionally they will have very weak melee and missile defenses, as well as a lower health pool.

If someone builds a Strength Trader, it should be a fairly simple task to get all the skills required to survive.
Strength Traders should need to use their unique abilities to get gold, to buy food and protection.
Strength Traders end game should be able to amass a massive fortune, and reside in a large castle, masterfully crafted and decorated with his greatest creations.

If someone builds a Intelligence Trader, it should be a simple task to get all the skills required to survive.
OK, so this is the exception. An intellect trader can traditionally survive happily in a non PK world, they should need assistance to clear monsters from their land, and periodically will need to trade with a Strength trader to get the tools they need to do their work but other than this, they can make food and sell food, and should live a long happy life. Think farmville here.
Intelligence Traders end game should be able to amass a massive fortune, and reside on a homestead, with meticulously manicured grounds, and creatures from all ends of the world to keep them safe.

At what point did everyone need to reach all of these goals at the same time? I can't specifically identify when it became commonplace, but it's when I lost interest. I also believe it should be a long journey to the end, if I am there in a month, whats next?


The game it appears that many of you want died about 10 years ago with the player population. The game has been figured out by the people who play it making traders useless.

Not many really log in anymore and just make a fighter and start playing the game with reliance on someone. Heck if you did that I would probably call you a noob by todays standards.

Most of us are use to the low population of the game and rely on ourselves to get by. Traders need noobs who will buy gear, supplies, etc.

Lets look at fishing on RPGWO Future. Fish are said to be hard to get making them valuable for traders, even if a trader grind out some fish no one is really going to buy them. Why? No one plays anymore, and the people who do play the game play with their friends and one of them is a trader already.

You can say that the v2 system is broken, but honestly the fun that you had on old servers is the same as it is today. RPGWO worlds have been getting better and better with more features, things to do, etc. The only difference is that enough people played back then that you could pick any build, rely on others, and provide use to someone.

The only difference in the game that makes it so that all of you trader types feel worthless is that no one plays the game anymore. The population is maxed at 10 ppl across two worlds.

While you may think that separating the game into these classes will fix things, all it really does is harm the game at lower populations and force more people to make a trader first.

If you want to slow down fighters from getting high skill points etc just slow down their leveling, increase trader leveling speed, and make skills more costly. Why not allow traders to get to high levels?

All in all traders need noobs / high population to feel worth which is something this game hasn't had for 10 yrs. Without it you're wasting your time anyway you put things.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 12:25:33 pm by Roarion »
Asylum - lvl 33 Thrower
Pyramid - lvl 40 Scythe
Dementia - lvl 69 Spear
Nexus V2 - lvl 61 Stealth
Rebirth - lvl 72 Bow
Ganymede - lvl 56 Mage
Hex - lvl 1000 Admin
Future - lvl 1000 Admin
Retired - Unless V6 pulls a miracle

Offline Greatest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1330
  • Attack: 161
    Defense: 91
    Attack Member
  • Karma: 9
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm better than you!
    • View Profile

  • Total Badges: 38
    Badges: (View All)
    Linux User Mobile User Tenth year Anniversary
Re: Community
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2015, 12:34:40 pm »
At what point did everyone need to reach all of these goals at the same time? I can't specifically identify when it became commonplace, but it's when I lost interest. I also believe it should be a long journey to the end, if I am there in a month, whats next?
Wipes!  the fun part about sandbox games is you get to start over and play again and again.  a typical server on RPGWO should probably last no longer than 6 months then restart(my personal opinion), having wipes after certain periods of time also means people would concentrate on a main play style instead of going hybrid...simple solution to that. 

other solutions to this would be to add higher tier things in each skill, and nerf the amount attributes play in skills.  if a full crafter goes 1 month doing nothing but mining and smithing then a fighter(str/dex) trains those same skills since fighters get far more xp and level faster they'll have higher base attributes and be better at those skills.  there could possibly be a small penalty on starting level of skills trained in game. 
for example:
under level 5 no penalty on new skills
5-10 has a 10% penalty
10-15 has a 20% penalty
15-20 has a 30% penalty
20-25 has a 40% penalty
25+ has a 50% penalty, and that should be max

so if you have 300 strength and 300 dex and you train smithing at level 22, instead of starting with smithing at 400((str + dex)/3) it would start at 240.  thats still pretty high(much higher than anyone starting with smithing would have at the start), but still keeps them from making the best items right away.
why does Fox keep cancelling good shows?

Offline Naed

Re: Community
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2015, 12:38:06 pm »
Yeah I was always thinking of hosting a server that wiped annually or bi-annually, With a permanent leader-board.

To bad I'm too lazy :/

Offline Roarion

Re: Community
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2015, 01:21:29 pm »
At what point did everyone need to reach all of these goals at the same time? I can't specifically identify when it became commonplace, but it's when I lost interest. I also believe it should be a long journey to the end, if I am there in a month, whats next?
Wipes!  the fun part about sandbox games is you get to start over and play again and again.  a typical server on RPGWO should probably last no longer than 6 months then restart(my personal opinion), having wipes after certain periods of time also means people would concentrate on a main play style instead of going hybrid...simple solution to that. 

other solutions to this would be to add higher tier things in each skill, and nerf the amount attributes play in skills.  if a full crafter goes 1 month doing nothing but mining and smithing then a fighter(str/dex) trains those same skills since fighters get far more xp and level faster they'll have higher base attributes and be better at those skills.  there could possibly be a small penalty on starting level of skills trained in game. 
for example:
under level 5 no penalty on new skills
5-10 has a 10% penalty
10-15 has a 20% penalty
15-20 has a 30% penalty
20-25 has a 40% penalty
25+ has a 50% penalty, and that should be max

so if you have 300 strength and 300 dex and you train smithing at level 22, instead of starting with smithing at 400((str + dex)/3) it would start at 240.  thats still pretty high(much higher than anyone starting with smithing would have at the start), but still keeps them from making the best items right away.

I think anything being changed remotely close to this working depends solely on player population being high. If a crafter goes hard for a month with good XP they will have 700-800 blacksmith / alchemy (done on future by multiple ppl), a fighter training blacksmith / alch only starts around 300 skill. The trader has a huge advantage and can craft some of the best stuff on future at 700-800 skill. It still doesn't really matter due to low population in the end.
Asylum - lvl 33 Thrower
Pyramid - lvl 40 Scythe
Dementia - lvl 69 Spear
Nexus V2 - lvl 61 Stealth
Rebirth - lvl 72 Bow
Ganymede - lvl 56 Mage
Hex - lvl 1000 Admin
Future - lvl 1000 Admin
Retired - Unless V6 pulls a miracle

Offline Mickey Kudlo

Re: Community
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2015, 01:48:45 pm »
Yeah the population is a big issue. If no one around then you need to fill the need yourself. Hopefully the NPC changes I want to try will help.

One idea to get "community" could be you can only train skills at creation. While playing, you still get skill points at leveling but those are spent specializing.

But any system you do, people will make multiple logins and players to get around a players limitations or lack of services from other players. I fought and fought people for years with bans and ip tracking and login limiting and it sort of worked but really got in the way of legitimate players and cost admin time. I am more reserved to let players do what they want and let them define the "fun".
You may have conquered my worlds, but I destroyed them!

Offline Mongo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 449
  • Attack: 91
    Defense: 91
    Attack Member
  • Karma: 16
  • Gender: Male
  • My Loony Bun is Fine
    • View Profile
    • Email

  • Total Badges: 29
    Badges: (View All)
    Sixth year Anniversary 10 Poll Votes Fifth year Anniversary
Re: Community
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2015, 03:40:09 pm »
It's tough to have an online game without the players.

Way back before WoW was a thing I used to play Lineage 2, a really grindy MMO. Equipment drops as loot were incredibly rare, most equipment was created by dedicated crafters. There was no central auction house. The player-run economy was a HUGE part of the game. You'd walk into a busy city and the all the streets would be flooded by player-run shops trying to sell stuff. It was a lot of fun hunting for good prices, finding deals. I tried the game again a few years later, after most of the population was playing WoW and everyone else was level capped. All the cities were barren, you couldn't find any of the gear or supplies you needed anymore. It was essentially dead.

I think I would still rather have 10 people online, none of which had the farming skill I need to clear my land than to have 10 people online, every one of which can do everything themselves. I think it's OK to have limited availability to every skill. If there's no jewelers on, you're SOL... and that's just fine.

As far as people using multiple accounts on the same PC.. I don't know. Personally, I like it being restricted, but it's an absolute pain in the rumpus to moderate that. I'm sure there's some solutions that could be come up with to prevent multiple instances of the client from running on the same box. Nothing people wouldn't be able to work around if they tried hard enough, but you can only do so much.
Shoop!

Offline King Dravien

Re: Community
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2015, 12:21:59 pm »
If people want to get to the stage of self reliance why restrict that? You need to be a high level to be truly self sufficient and without traders around higher levels are harder to get.
RPGWO:
Lvl 91 Staff - Steeltide
Lvl 97 Crossbow - Nulona
Lvl 47 Thrower - Shadow
Lvl 61 Axe - Ataxia
Lvl 82 Staff - Asylum
Lvl 94 Halberd - Nexus
Lvl 82 Shockwave Cannon - Future
Lvl 66 Stealth Xbow - Carnage

Offline Sacrifice

Re: Community
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2015, 01:01:57 pm »
You could do a 3 main spec thing that greatly lowers/raises skills based on your first choice. People could still be self reliant it would just be harder.

For example it could be like this

Mage: Raised magics, maybe some + to crafting skills that require interlligence; lowered attack/strength based crafting

Warrior: Raised melee attacks/ maybe some + to crafting skills that require strength; lowered magic/intelligence based crafting

Trader: Raise to all trade skills; lowered melee attack/magic attack

Nothing would be barred there would still be a specing and everything this beginning thing would only be a small modifier on the skills nothing to noticeable. It just would slow down being self reliant.

Offline Mongo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 449
  • Attack: 91
    Defense: 91
    Attack Member
  • Karma: 16
  • Gender: Male
  • My Loony Bun is Fine
    • View Profile
    • Email

  • Total Badges: 29
    Badges: (View All)
    Sixth year Anniversary 10 Poll Votes Fifth year Anniversary
Re: Community
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2015, 10:58:29 pm »
If people want to get to the stage of self reliance why restrict that? You need to be a high level to be truly self sufficient and without traders around higher levels are harder to get.

If a warrior wants to be able to tend their land, build a house and make some equipment, I think that's just dandy. But when they can also use bows, make jewels and use spells, I think it's too much. I don't think any one person should be able to do everything, but I'm probably alone in thinking that way. It's a multiplayer game and features should be developed with multiple people in mind, not an "army of one" mentality.
Shoop!

Offline Naed

Re: Community
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2015, 06:36:28 am »
Mongo I strongly agree.

And I do still hold the believe the game died because of the ability to play solo. Without human interaction the majority of people will get bored on quit after they complete the homestead / castle, forcing that interaction is critical in mmo's.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 06:39:39 am by Naed »

Offline Greatest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1330
  • Attack: 161
    Defense: 91
    Attack Member
  • Karma: 9
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm better than you!
    • View Profile

  • Total Badges: 38
    Badges: (View All)
    Linux User Mobile User Tenth year Anniversary
Re: Community
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2015, 07:53:20 pm »
If people want to get to the stage of self reliance why restrict that? You need to be a high level to be truly self sufficient and without traders around higher levels are harder to get.
think of it this way: you have some job, you go there a few times a week, and for that you get a pay check.  that money you make is then used to pay for things like insurance, food, rent, car, clothes, gas, whatever...lets pretend you can make some of this stuff yourself, clothes and food seem the obvious from that list.  if you garden/hunt you can probably cut way back on grocery bills(maybe even become self reliant), if you learn to sew you can make your own clothes(will probably still need to buy clothe from a store).  you'd still need money for rent, so you'd still be working at whatever job you have, meaning you'll still need that car and gas, and insurance. 

society works because there are things people can't do themselves(or not as well as others) and they can trade/barter/buy what they need.  if people can do everything they need all on their own, then why bother with social interaction?  if you want a game that allows you to do everything you could always try single player games...

also you don't have to be a high level to be self sufficient, you can usually make anything you need by level 20.  thats high for a full crafter, but fighters make that in a month!
why does Fox keep cancelling good shows?

Offline Roarion

Re: Community
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2015, 08:52:37 pm »
If people want to get to the stage of self reliance why restrict that? You need to be a high level to be truly self sufficient and without traders around higher levels are harder to get.
think of it this way: you have some job, you go there a few times a week, and for that you get a pay check.  that money you make is then used to pay for things like insurance, food, rent, car, clothes, gas, whatever...lets pretend you can make some of this stuff yourself, clothes and food seem the obvious from that list.  if you garden/hunt you can probably cut way back on grocery bills(maybe even become self reliant), if you learn to sew you can make your own clothes(will probably still need to buy clothe from a store).  you'd still need money for rent, so you'd still be working at whatever job you have, meaning you'll still need that car and gas, and insurance. 

society works because there are things people can't do themselves(or not as well as others) and they can trade/barter/buy what they need.  if people can do everything they need all on their own, then why bother with social interaction?  if you want a game that allows you to do everything you could always try single player games...

also you don't have to be a high level to be self sufficient, you can usually make anything you need by level 20.  thats high for a full crafter, but fighters make that in a month!

Level 20 in a month? What servers have you been playing? Also most fighters don't start getting trade skills until level 40+. Anyone with a good build specs 2 defs and an attack. Training 3 magics is 18 skill points, getting the other def is 6, stealth is 10 points, mana conversion is 6 thats level 40 already and im probably forgetting something.

Level 40 and now you need 10 more points to get mining and BS, 10 more for farm and alch. We are talking lvl 60 to start becoming self sufficient. On older servers that took a decent amount of time.

It also sounds like v6 will have significantly slower leveling from what i've heard, the recent servers are great XP rates to compensate for lack of players.
Asylum - lvl 33 Thrower
Pyramid - lvl 40 Scythe
Dementia - lvl 69 Spear
Nexus V2 - lvl 61 Stealth
Rebirth - lvl 72 Bow
Ganymede - lvl 56 Mage
Hex - lvl 1000 Admin
Future - lvl 1000 Admin
Retired - Unless V6 pulls a miracle

Offline Roarion

Re: Community
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2015, 09:12:49 pm »
If people want to get to the stage of self reliance why restrict that? You need to be a high level to be truly self sufficient and without traders around higher levels are harder to get.
think of it this way: you have some job, you go there a few times a week, and for that you get a pay check.  that money you make is then used to pay for things like insurance, food, rent, car, clothes, gas, whatever...lets pretend you can make some of this stuff yourself, clothes and food seem the obvious from that list.  if you garden/hunt you can probably cut way back on grocery bills(maybe even become self reliant), if you learn to sew you can make your own clothes(will probably still need to buy clothe from a store).  you'd still need money for rent, so you'd still be working at whatever job you have, meaning you'll still need that car and gas, and insurance. 

society works because there are things people can't do themselves(or not as well as others) and they can trade/barter/buy what they need.  if people can do everything they need all on their own, then why bother with social interaction?  if you want a game that allows you to do everything you could always try single player games...

also you don't have to be a high level to be self sufficient, you can usually make anything you need by level 20.  thats high for a full crafter, but fighters make that in a month!

Level 20 in a month? What servers have you been playing? Also most fighters don't start getting trade skills until level 40+. Anyone with a good build specs 2 defs and an attack. Training 3 magics is 18 skill points, getting the other def is 6, stealth is 10 points, mana conversion is 6 thats level 40 already and im probably forgetting something.

Level 40 and now you need 10 more points to get mining and BS, 10 more for farm and alch. We are talking lvl 60 to start becoming self sufficient. On older servers that took a decent amount of time.

It also sounds like v6 will have significantly slower leveling from what i've heard, the recent servers are great XP rates to compensate for lack of players.

Edit time is too low >.>

Long story short I think there is nothing wrong with the current V2 system, the only issue is that there are not sufficient traders providing goods for fighters.

If I could kill some roaches, get some gold, and buy a better weapon from someone then I would much rather do that then make my own trader / waste skill points on trade skills.

As far as large player base goes, its easy for 1 dedicated trader to easily provide weapons / gear to 30-50 people.
Something should be done to make them a bit more of a challenge to get like potions, which are much more time consuming and run out.
Asylum - lvl 33 Thrower
Pyramid - lvl 40 Scythe
Dementia - lvl 69 Spear
Nexus V2 - lvl 61 Stealth
Rebirth - lvl 72 Bow
Ganymede - lvl 56 Mage
Hex - lvl 1000 Admin
Future - lvl 1000 Admin
Retired - Unless V6 pulls a miracle

Offline Greatest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1330
  • Attack: 161
    Defense: 91
    Attack Member
  • Karma: 9
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm better than you!
    • View Profile

  • Total Badges: 38
    Badges: (View All)
    Linux User Mobile User Tenth year Anniversary
Re: Community
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2015, 10:43:35 pm »
since you bring it up, on Future you start with 40 points...

melee def is 8 points, spec makes it 16
missle def is 6 points, spec makes it 12
attacks are 6 points, spec makes it 12 that would be your first 40
next up inner power at 10 points(includes heals and buffs)
refining costs 8 and mining costs 6, you don't have cooking so a fighter can make all their gear and have magical boosts at level 24
4 points for harvesting, 8 points for pharm and now they have potions too, and since boost items are covered under refining you're fully self sufficient at level 36!

on Hex(you may have left it, but you did start it) you start with 52 points

melee def is 10, spec makes it 20
missle def is 6, spec makes it 12
attacks are 6, spec makes them 12(priest includes heals)
magic def is 6, not enough points to spec...
from there you can spec run or start with 2 points(lets spec run)
mining is 4 points, blacksmith is 6 so level 10 you can craft your own gear...
farming is 4, alchemy is 6, and cooking is 3, level 23 you can craft every day items
white magic is 8, red magic is 6, level 37 you have it all except jewelry making which costs 4, so level 41 to have it all...

you may want to grab those in a different order, but point costs mean you'll still have them all by those levels...so why would you wait til 40 to train a craft skill when you can be fully self reliant by level 36/41?
why does Fox keep cancelling good shows?

Offline Naed

Re: Community
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2015, 06:41:58 am »
Thank you for making that so clear Greatest.

Offline Mongo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 449
  • Attack: 91
    Defense: 91
    Attack Member
  • Karma: 16
  • Gender: Male
  • My Loony Bun is Fine
    • View Profile
    • Email

  • Total Badges: 29
    Badges: (View All)
    Sixth year Anniversary 10 Poll Votes Fifth year Anniversary
Re: Community
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2015, 08:37:35 am »
I've written and deleted several full walls of text at this point. I think this discussion is going more towards skill balance than "community" although the two work hand in hand.
Shoop!

Offline Roarion

Re: Community
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2015, 01:20:53 pm »
since you bring it up, on Future you start with 40 points...

melee def is 8 points, spec makes it 16
missle def is 6 points, spec makes it 12
attacks are 6 points, spec makes it 12 that would be your first 40
next up inner power at 10 points(includes heals and buffs)
refining costs 8 and mining costs 6, you don't have cooking so a fighter can make all their gear and have magical boosts at level 24
4 points for harvesting, 8 points for pharm and now they have potions too, and since boost items are covered under refining you're fully self sufficient at level 36!

on Hex(you may have left it, but you did start it) you start with 52 points

melee def is 10, spec makes it 20
missle def is 6, spec makes it 12
attacks are 6, spec makes them 12(priest includes heals)
magic def is 6, not enough points to spec...
from there you can spec run or start with 2 points(lets spec run)
mining is 4 points, blacksmith is 6 so level 10 you can craft your own gear...
farming is 4, alchemy is 6, and cooking is 3, level 23 you can craft every day items
white magic is 8, red magic is 6, level 37 you have it all except jewelry making which costs 4, so level 41 to have it all...

you may want to grab those in a different order, but point costs mean you'll still have them all by those levels...so why would you wait til 40 to train a craft skill when you can be fully self reliant by level 36/41?

As I have said in my previous post, recent servers have compensated for low player base.
Asylum - lvl 33 Thrower
Pyramid - lvl 40 Scythe
Dementia - lvl 69 Spear
Nexus V2 - lvl 61 Stealth
Rebirth - lvl 72 Bow
Ganymede - lvl 56 Mage
Hex - lvl 1000 Admin
Future - lvl 1000 Admin
Retired - Unless V6 pulls a miracle

Offline Roarion

Re: Community
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2015, 04:04:52 pm »
since you bring it up, on Future you start with 40 points...

melee def is 8 points, spec makes it 16
missle def is 6 points, spec makes it 12
attacks are 6 points, spec makes it 12 that would be your first 40
next up inner power at 10 points(includes heals and buffs)
refining costs 8 and mining costs 6, you don't have cooking so a fighter can make all their gear and have magical boosts at level 24
4 points for harvesting, 8 points for pharm and now they have potions too, and since boost items are covered under refining you're fully self sufficient at level 36!

on Hex(you may have left it, but you did start it) you start with 52 points

melee def is 10, spec makes it 20
missle def is 6, spec makes it 12
attacks are 6, spec makes them 12(priest includes heals)
magic def is 6, not enough points to spec...
from there you can spec run or start with 2 points(lets spec run)
mining is 4 points, blacksmith is 6 so level 10 you can craft your own gear...
farming is 4, alchemy is 6, and cooking is 3, level 23 you can craft every day items
white magic is 8, red magic is 6, level 37 you have it all except jewelry making which costs 4, so level 41 to have it all...

you may want to grab those in a different order, but point costs mean you'll still have them all by those levels...so why would you wait til 40 to train a craft skill when you can be fully self reliant by level 36/41?

I didn't have much time to reply to this since I was at work, hence my half baked previous comment.

Future Build -

1-10 is going to be painful. Picking up magic was the right choice for a fighter build but practice weapons are hopelessly bad.

You skipped getting magic defense, nearly every sector and quest has magic mobs. Now you don't have magic defense  until level 42 in this build.

You skipped mana conversion making inner power a lot harder to level. You will need a larger mana pool / wisdom level and will level your magic 2x slower then anyone else.

Overall I guess it could be viable with a lot of painful grinding. This world is a 2015+ world not a 2010- world where it was possible to see 40 players online at a single time. Heck, Mysti attempted to make a updated version of hexed called Carnage (which is very poorly done on balance imo) and I had to wait 1:30 hr for someone to come online and make me a Copper weapon because I played a build where I picked up magic first.

Hex Build -

Pretty much the same as the future build but much worse order like you stated.

Once again you are skipping training magic def, mana conversion. Still pretty painful to level early on. Pretty much the same thing applies from what I said on the previous topic.


You are waiting until lvl 40 to grab other skills because it makes the game too painful / grindy to play. You are going to need to make a trader before you make these builds or suffer the consequences. You  left a lot out of these builds and its going to cost you. Imagine v6 is semi popular and 50 viable fighters are online. Stealth is a major requirement now to escape battles unless you want to be PKed every 20 minutes. Adding back in magic def, mana conversion, stealth => 22 more skill points needed. We haven't even touched building your own house (4 more), and making hide armours (2 more), don't even get me started on if you went bow/xbow, etc. In the end you are going to need a lvl 60-70 character to be self sufficient without harming your fighting capabilities.

Don't get me wrong, its not too hard to get lvl 60-70 on Hex, Future but they are recent RPGWO worlds. I can't imagine playing the game with the current player base like I use to do on Dementia where lvl 60-70 and 3m stats was an entire summer of playing 30+ hours a week due to 5k max XP per hit. You couldn't become self sufficient without playing an extremely long time on that world, but a lot more ppl played back then. The order of self sufficiency needs to scale with player base.

V1-V2 has 15 years of meta behind the game, people know whats wrong with the current system. Going with entirely new systems and you are basically throwing away the 15 years where all of the issues have been found. Once again I don't think the game needs it core systems / values redone as much as it needs a reboot with better graphics/animations, fluid playing, crafting, etc.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 04:10:38 pm by Roarion »
Asylum - lvl 33 Thrower
Pyramid - lvl 40 Scythe
Dementia - lvl 69 Spear
Nexus V2 - lvl 61 Stealth
Rebirth - lvl 72 Bow
Ganymede - lvl 56 Mage
Hex - lvl 1000 Admin
Future - lvl 1000 Admin
Retired - Unless V6 pulls a miracle

Offline Naed

Re: Community
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2015, 06:46:31 am »
Roarion, if a level 80 player can do it all. The system is broken.

A level 80 should be a grand-master in his/her skills.

Being able to do it all, in any capacity wrecks and general economy for everyone.

A cap of say, 60 skills points (total) would probably relieve most of the economic problems. Having the skill points in at 1 for every 4 levels would make it so levels are still meaningful at higher levels. Maybe even remove the need for a cap as a level 80 would only have acpigulated 19-20 extra points.

I do understand the direction the game is currently in, but that is not where we want to go, is it?

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
21 Replies
3579 Views
Last post May 12, 2017, 01:27:14 am
by Anubis