Author Topic: Random Suggestions  (Read 6740 times)

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Offline Mongo

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Re: Random Suggestions
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2015, 09:14:49 am »
On the topic of "Random Suggestions" ... How do people feel about a full loot system where you drop everything on you on death?

There's a number of ways it could be implemented, allowing the owner time to retrieve their items before they're up for grabs. I'm on the fence about it, honestly.





Another thought.. I know the world is going to be designed to be an open player created and run world. Survival is a factor, but it's more secondary. There are several games where this is the case but events cause the world to be more harsh at times. Some thoughts on world events:

1) Seasons. I know I've brought this up before. Seasons are amazing and I think are a core part of "survival". Sometimes the most dangerous enemy is nature.

2) Invasions. If there's tribes going around, building cities and roaming, it makes sense that they would want to conquer other lands. It may be that you need to defend your land against such things. Note: I know this implies "Players need to be able to fight" which is kind of a slap in the face to pure crafters. Not sure of an acceptable solution for this.

3) Night. In many games, night causes the world to become more difficult. First and foremost, I think we should push the darkness factor. If you don't have a light source, you're not gonna be able to see much at night. Monsters could roam more at night, making travel more difficult. Maybe even creatures that were peaceful in the day are ferocious at night.
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Offline Greatest

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Re: Random Suggestions
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2015, 05:42:43 pm »
"full loot" just means people keep everything they own on their mule except the gear they're currently using.  on that topic, if you lose your weapon when fighting you can sort of be screwed...so I see good and bad side of that 1.

for your other suggestions:
1: seasons make a great variation for a lot of fun things, but would suck for a new player who starts right in the middle of winter.  so while harsh I think there needs to be some way for a new starter to be able to survive.

2: I've always been against these types of things.  living in a town(near a town since you can't actually live in town here) should give you some protection from such things.  I had to say this to someone else but I'll say it again, RPGWO has a medieval setting.  while invasions happened during that time, they weren't something common. adding something like this would basicly just get a lot of crafters killed, or have them all log off til its over.

3: I like this idea!  although with that being said we would need more light sources.  usually we only have lanterns(need copper) and torches(need cotton) which take some time to get.  a basic stick on fire would be a good starter light source.  would also be nice if lights only worked while being held in your hand.  this of course means nothing if people use lighting cheats...and yes some people do!
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Offline Mongo

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Re: Random Suggestions
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2015, 10:31:44 am »
"full loot" just means people keep everything they own on their mule except the gear they're currently using.  on that topic, if you lose your weapon when fighting you can sort of be screwed...so I see good and bad side of that 1.

Yeah, maybe you drop all loot and there's a chance you'll drop a piece of equipment? I dunno. I think death needs to serve a purpose in order for players to actively try to avoid it. Vitae is .. ok. But overall more an inconvenience than a penalty (unless you die 30 times in a row, that is). I play most games on a hardcore setting with my player being deleted on death. I fully accept that not everyone enjoys this and I would not suggest it for RPGWO. I think having a more punishing death penalty is a good middle ground. Plus, full loot in a PvP server makes hunting players SO much more fun. If you can get your adrenaline going in PvP because you know if you die you're gonna lose that awesome rare drop you just crossed the world to get, it's exciting. Sucks if you die but .. there it is. Plus, it forces players to make a fight or flight decision rather than just "tiger it, doesn't matter if I die, I'll just respawn close to my house. Really they're doing me a favor".


1: seasons make a great variation for a lot of fun things, but would suck for a new player who starts right in the middle of winter.  so while harsh I think there needs to be some way for a new starter to be able to survive.

I agree. Without having a central start town, this could be difficult to achieve. However, I think a suitable workaround could be found somewhere.


2: I've always been against these types of things.  living in a town(near a town since you can't actually live in town here) should give you some protection from such things.  I had to say this to someone else but I'll say it again, RPGWO has a medieval setting.  while invasions happened during that time, they weren't something common. adding something like this would basicly just get a lot of crafters killed, or have them all log off til its over.

Definitely see where you're coming from. I do wanna point out though that trying to achieve "realism" is kind of a futile effort. In real settings, you have people performing mundane tasks every day because if they don't, they die (or lose the means in which they can survive, same deal). In online games though, people don't want to play. I've played as a pure crafter, but even then you're mining new items, creating new potions, smithing new armors, creating new jewels.. you're not gonna spend all day just doing one thing. You're out to do new and exciting things, in your own way.

I agree that invasions are not something that would work well for crafters. All I want to do is start to get people thinking of ideas. Possibly this wouldn't work. Or maybe crafters could find some alternative way to deal with them. Maybe crafters could trade with an invading tribe, to bribe them not to destroy you. Maybe crafters could settle in lands protected by others. I dunno.

3: I like this idea!  although with that being said we would need more light sources.  usually we only have lanterns(need copper) and torches(need cotton) which take some time to get.  a basic stick on fire would be a good starter light source.  would also be nice if lights only worked while being held in your hand.  this of course means nothing if people use lighting cheats...and yes some people do!

Yeah, I don't really know how to deal with people who use lighting cheats. My experience with preventing these kinds of exploits is limited to "If you don't want the player to use information they shouldn't know about, don't send it to them in the first place". So I guess if the server only sent information to players about other things within their light radius, the player's wouldn't be able to exploit it. Maybe.

Even nighttime in V5 didn't really feel like night. Just a kind of dim day.

As far as forcing players to hold a light source in their hand... well that's interesting. Anyone wanting to use a 2 handed weapon or a shield would be screwed if they wanted to see anything, but maybe it's a fair trade. There might be an alternative. What if V6 introduced a new way to handle items. Rather than equipping it or putting it in your backpack, there was a "carry" feature that allowed a player to essentially attach an item to their character, carrying it around. So imagine a lantern sitting on the ground. Player moves up to it and instead of dragging it to their inventory, they do some alternate interaction to carry it. It automatically overrides anything equipped in the left hand. So if there was a shield there, it no longer functions. If you have a 2 handed weapon, it cannot be used. UNTIL you press that alternate interaction again at which time the lantern drops to the ground and you can use your items again.

The idea behind this would be a realistic way to move a light source around and quickly drop it should the need arise. You could use it to move other items too, though I don't currently see the point.
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Offline Greatest

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Re: Random Suggestions
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2015, 03:31:00 pm »
As far as forcing players to hold a light source in their hand... well that's interesting. Anyone wanting to use a 2 handed weapon or a shield would be screwed if they wanted to see anything, but maybe it's a fair trade.
now I'm thinking about torches as weapons...mace skill? does fire damage? dual wielding torches could be fun!

as far as a "carry" slot, it seems logical.  anytime you're watching a movie(medieval fantasy style) where someone is carrying a torch and a fight breaks out they either hold it off hand and use it to parry or drop it on the ground and go for their sword/shield. 

building on that, it raises the question: while fighting would it give less light?  on the ground it won't shine as far so I think maybe a 1-2 tile penalty would work fine depending on the light source.  also don't forget there would be static light items such as campfires or braziers...so there would be times where a fighter wouldn't need to carry his light source.
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Offline Mickey Kudlo

Re: Random Suggestions
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2015, 04:47:30 pm »
V5 death penalty does make you drop ALL items plus you loose all level XP since last leveling. Anyone can pick up your stuff but maybe they can just pick up one item and the rest free up over time.

Mules should be killable and should drop everything too. Could have varying types of mules that trade off carry burden versus being able to defend self or be used to attack. Like strap a sack to a wolf. You get some carry and some fight.

Some kinda events or story line should exist.

Seasons are a good idea but the artwork/content is the major hurtle I see so far. Less than level 5 players could be cold/starve immune.

Invasions or raids should happen. There should be some risk to playing, even a crafter. Plus crafters aren't helpless. I want to give dagger skill away free or if we have Races, then each race gets a free weapon skill maybe. But really, if a crafter is prepared then they can cope. And there should be risk for property damage.

And crafters should be able to protect themselves in other ways that warriors can't... like building walls and traps around your house.

The Night time idea is good. I can see day/nite monsters/animals coming and going and night would be more dangerous. Plus carrying a light source would bring "moths" to the flame and attract things too you.

Yeah, no more carrying flame items. I think shield spot good for it. Would suck for archers though. Maybe certain enclosed items can be carried like a lantern. Gives less light though. Not sure about it though. Opens the door to items that glow that you wear, like glowing sword, etc. Magical light might not be able to be seen by monsters too, well, some. Oh, night vision spells or night vision helmets. Jewelry too.
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Offline Roarion

Re: Random Suggestions
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2015, 05:12:22 pm »

Mules should be killable and should drop everything too. Could have varying types of mules that trade off carry burden versus being able to defend self or be used to attack. Like strap a sack to a wolf. You get some carry and some fight.


Expanding on this idea, a cool event would be getting mules from one place to another. Protecting them along a trade route from monsters / other players they may walk into. Doesn't seem like it would be too hard to script a monster going from point 1 to 2 and then giving the player an reward if the monster is alive.

Putting even more work into it, certain locations go up in certain prices depending on some factor - maybe random. So that checking the prices that day would yield optimal trade routes.

I've always enjoyed doing these in random other games. Lots of risk for other players to come kill you / steal your trade mule.

Side note - Trader sell values are really annoying to set in v2 and the value on items usually doesn't even work. Not sure how it works in V5, or if traders are even in. I've only touched V5 a bit.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 05:15:31 pm by Roarion »
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Offline Greatest

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Re: Random Suggestions
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2015, 06:31:56 am »
Expanding on this idea, a cool event would be getting mules from one place to another. Protecting them along a trade route from monsters / other players they may walk into. Doesn't seem like it would be too hard to script a monster going from point 1 to 2 and then giving the player an reward if the monster is alive.
like the old quest from steel tide where you guard the merchant?  I tried that quest once, guy ran straight into a group of monsters instead of following me along the 50 lines :(

Invasions or raids should happen. There should be some risk to playing, even a crafter. Plus crafters aren't helpless. I want to give dagger skill away free or if we have Races, then each race gets a free weapon skill maybe. But really, if a crafter is prepared then they can cope. And there should be risk for property damage.

And crafters should be able to protect themselves in other ways that warriors can't... like building walls and traps around your house.
well it has always been your way to make us helpless(if you take a weapon skill you can't get the craft skills you need) and I think you like seeing us get killed for silly reasons(unearthed graves)...but if you're going to add ways for us to defend ourselves then I won't argue against it.  if walls will actually stop invading monsters(I remember you saying elsewhere you want monsters to be able to destroy walls), then this shouldn't be a problem.
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Offline Sacrifice

Re: Random Suggestions
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2015, 06:21:50 pm »
This could be a drastic solution to the full looting aspect, you could remove mules.

If you were to remove mules and set a sort of global banking system, this would be great for pvp servers. I know alot of people wouldn't like this idea, but the only other option I could see being viable (for full loot) would be to make mules killable with full loot drop as well, or to lower mules burden limit by alot.



Offline Sacrifice

Re: Random Suggestions
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2015, 06:53:10 pm »
One of my favorite aspects of any game is a dynamic weather system. I have always liked games where if its raining my fire will probably go out, or I may need to water my plants if it is hot outside.

With the seasons idea, a dynamic weather system would be an awesome addition.

Spring like season could add some sort of rain? (I am not sure how this could work other than maybe making bodies of water grow or maybe making plants grow faster, or even some plants die? Of course with a touch of realism there could be bad storms where things get destroyed like tornadoes for example.

Snowstorms would be another awesome thing, it could lower visibility and slow movement speed this would be in the winter seasons.

Hot summers seasons when it doesn't rain could cause the need for irrigation, which could add a whole new area of farming other than just planting 3000 seeds and harvesting them all over and over.

Fall may not have any specifics other than maybe the grass and trees slowly turning brown.

Of course there would be the problem with art for each season as stated, as well as it would make the game much more difficult in many ways.

In the end it could be a list of various things that could either help or hinder each type of player in each season.

For example, in spring it could rain causing fighters armor to get wet and rust causing durability to deteriorate faster, but it could cause water all of a farmers crops for that day giving it a faster grow rate.


Offline Gizza

Re: Random Suggestions
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2015, 10:42:53 pm »
One of my favorite aspects of any game is a dynamic weather system. I have always liked games where if its raining my fire will probably go out, or I may need to water my plants if it is hot outside.

With the seasons idea, a dynamic weather system would be an awesome addition.

Spring like season could add some sort of rain? (I am not sure how this could work other than maybe making bodies of water grow or maybe making plants grow faster, or even some plants die? Of course with a touch of realism there could be bad storms where things get destroyed like tornadoes for example.

Snowstorms would be another awesome thing, it could lower visibility and slow movement speed this would be in the winter seasons.

Hot summers seasons when it doesn't rain could cause the need for irrigation, which could add a whole new area of farming other than just planting 3000 seeds and harvesting them all over and over.

Fall may not have any specifics other than maybe the grass and trees slowly turning brown.

Of course there would be the problem with art for each season as stated, as well as it would make the game much more difficult in many ways.

In the end it could be a list of various things that could either help or hinder each type of player in each season.

For example, in spring it could rain causing fighters armor to get wet and rust causing durability to deteriorate faster, but it could cause water all of a farmers crops for that day giving it a faster grow rate.



I said something somewhat similar to this a few years ago

Offline Greatest

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Re: Random Suggestions
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2015, 06:06:46 am »
I had a weird random thought for gawds, you probably won't like it, but here it is anyway:
have each gawd affiliated with certain skills(ie: gawd 1 is gawd of smithing and fishing) and if you worship that gawd you have random bonuses while practicing the skills that gawd represents.  for example if you're mining and you worship the gawd of mining and masonry you do extra 'work', use less stamina, or in rare occasions(with really high piety) mine 2 ore.

@Sacrifice how would you want the global banking system to work?  can be accessed only in town?  can still store anything?
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Offline Mickey Kudlo

Re: Random Suggestions
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2015, 10:38:13 pm »
That is a good Gawd idea. Karma and prayers play a role in that. But I had always thought of Gawds helping in ways different than magic and boosts.

I can see the banking system needing a player to to go a bank in a town to get money and  transfer items. They just warp the items to you :)
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Offline Sacrifice

Re: Random Suggestions
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2015, 11:54:47 pm »
@Sacrifice how would you want the global banking system to work?  can be accessed only in town?  can still store anything?

First off this wouldn't really be needed on a non-pk server, because of the fact that there really wouldn't be a point.

This would be a great idea on pk/semi-pk servers with full loot since you wouldn't be able to store everything instantly on your handy dandy pack mule.

First and for most this would not remove regular storage of the game i.e chests and bags.

How this would work would be that every certain amount of sectors, (or it could be proceduraly generated) a bank would be placed. These banks are accessible to anyone in the game pk or not. Also personal banks in your own home for traders would be a possible event item you could win.
All global banks would be connected, so you would have a global inventory bank.

For it to work as intended there would have to be a couple additives to the game. First off the bank could be limitless in space or not, there a lot of options for this ranging from people getting extra space from quests, to paying money for it, or even it being rewards for events. Also for it to work, to keep people from just teleporting to the bank instantly if they get caught would to be to either remove the teleport spell OR to add a cast time to the teleport spell.

I have played many pvp games with a system like this, and it always seems to work out for the better.

The only problem are the people who will camp certain banks, (but that happens on any pvp game). Of course a solution to this would to be to add a Good Bank and Bad Bank system. (they would not be any different as far as what they held) the only difference would be that players with positive karma levels could access both bank types, but players with negative levels of karma can only use bad banks.

Good Banks (god we need a better name for this) would have some sort of protection around them. (guards maybe I don't know)

Also this could tie into the Gawd system as where you could repent so to speak to reach a positive karma again. (by praying maybe or bringing certain items)

I don't think getting killed should raise your karma though. The reason for this is you would have people who should have bad karma having their friends kill them a bunch so they could use whatever banks they wanted.

Offline Mickey Kudlo

Re: Random Suggestions
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2015, 12:52:02 pm »
I think the world should be mixed PK. Maybe within a range of 1000 to the start point would be non-PK. Past that then it is forced PK. Prayers could be used for protection then. Speak the "PK Protection" prayer when you see someone. Of course they would just follow you until it wore off but it would give some kinda defense.

There would be PK and non-PK altars too. If you went PK then maybe you get an XP boost, like 25% for the extra risk.

Pretty much all buildings I want to be player made, so banks could be anywhere but probably have restrictions on how close they are to each other. Like 1 per sector or per 2x2 sectors. I need to start a new thread about buildings cuz I got an idea for them.

I am using the term Karma for favor with gawds or fuel to spend on prayers.

Prestige is what I have used for good versus bad, citizen versus criminal.

I can see the underground/criminal society having their own banking, somehow.
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Offline Sacrifice

Re: Random Suggestions
« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2015, 01:22:09 pm »
I think each bank should atleast be per 2x2 sectors, because people with high run won't have any trouble running back to banking. Of course for the new players this could create the problem of not running fast enough to get away, but if you aren't high enough to defend yourself I suppose you shouldn't leave the non-pk zone lol.

Offline Naed

Re: Random Suggestions
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2015, 01:52:07 pm »
If the world will be player created, I strongly suggest there is no form of gold, silver, copper in the traditional sense. As a standard for currency.

In fact that brings the obvious question of how do you claim land?

Well I suppose it optional that there is no land claiming, since how/who would you pay, and what? There is no governing body, so paying gold seems silly.

Perhaps claiming land costs nothing? But requires a skill? Perhaps this is a way to buff trades people, working your claimed land increases your landowner skill passively?

- A 2 skill point cost seems inconsequential.
- No stats should improve this skill, and all trained trade skills raise this skill passively when used on your land.
- Increasing land limit by one every 50 skill points?

At much higher skills potentially add serfs? A form a tame that allows hired guards for your lands? Perhaps after the landowner skill is Specialized the serfdom skill becomes available at a cost of say ten skill points.

This would greatly increase the value of a trade player as you can essentially build the worlds towns. This skill might also unlock things like traders and/or mules. A traders guild would then have great strength in the scheme of things.

I should add that fighters should have a very difficult time collecting assets, as they have an overwhelming advantage in their specialization, so should traders in theirs.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 01:55:25 pm by Naed »

Offline Mickey Kudlo

Re: Random Suggestions
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2015, 03:24:21 pm »
Every item needs a value of some measurement assigned. Otherwise NPCs will not be able to trade fairly. Even if I code the trade system to deal with values only... coins have a value too. No, we need some kinda currency else there is no economy and NPCs are useless. Plus player traders won't work either. Players want money for their items, not other items they don't need or can't resell.

A skill for land claiming sounds interesting. Will see what others think but I have an idea already in mind and not the V5 one which is same as V1/V2... /landclaim

Players would buy deed scrolls from a town hall. Different scrolls would give different levels of protection for your land: usage (can't mine/harvest), pickup (no stealing), entering (blocks entry), etc. Plus each would have different prices.
Players would go to the land you want then read the scroll and it casts a perm ward spell on the land, enforcing your claim and rights to it. Un-claiming does not get the scroll back.
Usage deeds would be useful if your poor or for example you find a good resource someplace and you want to protect it. Also for cheap farming plots. Pickup deeds would be good for your homes and storage.

But... the world has nothing built at the start. No Town Hall. No NPCs. It would need to be built first before land claiming happened. I'll start a new topic about my building ideas eventually.
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Offline Mongo

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Re: Random Suggestions
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2015, 03:45:55 pm »
The first settlers arrive, they can start building anywhere as the land is unowned.

Groups of players start fighting each other for territory, pushing others out of "Their" land.

The group will attract more people, a town is established. The influence grows.

A town "owns" much of the surrounding lands, protecting it from enemies. A player may then go to that town and purchase a deed so they can build within the town's "influence".
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Re: Random Suggestions
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2015, 07:05:40 pm »
I like the idea of a skill to claim land, but 50 to add 1 plot is high when he wants skills maxed at 100, meaning a max of 3 claims.  with plots also being cut into quarters(10X10 instead of 20X20) this makes for very little usable land since at max you'll have 75% of a normal plot.

@Mickey I posted in your other thread about how I feel about the way you want towns built, but the deed idea for different types of claims seems interesting.  though I have to ask, if 1 person uses a usage deed on a plot then someone else comes along and uses a higher deed will the lower deed be removed?  or will the low level deeds prevent anyone from using higher deeds at all?  if the cheap deeds prevent other deeds from being used what will stop 1 person from buying up a bunch of cheap deeds and using them on half the world?  I understand the cheap deed doesn't give a lot of protection to your  land, but it would make it unusable for anyone else...and with walls to keep others out(can't destroy without usage?) they can own the world pretty cheaply!
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Offline Sacrifice

Re: Random Suggestions
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2015, 02:06:20 pm »
Possible solution to the no currency idea: In other games I play, items become currency in games. For example: Path of exile has no gold/silver/copper/whatever currency, all trade is conducted with items that allow you to modify items or weapons or some other effect on your character.

What I propose would be a similar system of items in RPGWO that could be used for trade between players/npcs/even for claiming land. First off you would need to figure out a base item which would be the lowest "currency" item in the game. I know it sounds strange, but the first (or one of the first 3 levels of items) should be Land Claiming Item (deeds) and Mule giving item. Yes, it would make the game a little easier to get your first claim/mule, but that is always generally the first step in RPGWO. After a person has claimed there max amount of plots or got there mule (or secondary mule)(or tertiary mule) 1000 gold becomes meaningless (except for food) and there isn't really a need for such an item anymore. The lowest token instead of these two would be a food token, which would be tradable to npcs maybe (to solve the 300gold per jerky crisis in every server). The next couple tiers of tradable items could be things to add buffs to items? Like a scroll of +1 +2 +3 or something such as that. The items list for currency Items would be a work in progress as I can't think of all the items that could be used,  but it is just an idea.

Another part to tag onto the items of trading, maybe have multiple tiers of land claiming/npc taming deed items.

Land claiming deed 1 lets you claim your first plot.

Land claiming deed 2 lets you claim your 2nd plot.

Land claiming deed 3 lets you claim your 3rd plot.

And so on.

Another idea I have for the game would be a way to add better protection for traders.

I am sure this has been mentioned before, but what if traders could use the same weapons/items as fighters. BUT their ability with it is based off a trade skill. For example(and it would scale so all fighters weren't traders in the end)

The first tier of axe, whatever it may be lets say copper, would be 75 Axe Skill to use. For a trader said weapon first tier would be maybe 100 Forestry. Of course it would grossly scale so that at the end it would be like the highest tier axe requires idk 1200 axe skill, but for a forestry person to use it they would have to have maybe 3000 Forestry.

This would work like this:
Axe= Forestry and Axe Skills
Scythe= Farming and Scythe Skills
Throwing= Alchemy and Throwing (could make throwable potions)
Sword= Mining maybe? and Sword
Mace= Blacksmith and Mace
Bow= Fletching and Bow
And so on, it doesn't necessarily have to be every weapon type be useable by a trader, just enough to give the options.

Of course the final part of this, would be that using an Axe weapon(or any weapon type) while equipping it with the forestry skill(or any other trade type skill) would not raise your skill. That way you really are only defending yourself with the weapon, you can't go out and train with it as well.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 02:09:12 pm by Sacrifice »

 

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