Author Topic: New world interest check  (Read 5898 times)

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Offline hazze

New world interest check
« on: February 17, 2015, 11:39:48 pm »
Hi. I have some proposal. If there's no one planning to launch something in immediate future, and based on some post recently about the only one online world and it's quality of life, would anyone be interested in a reasonably-sized world with some normal or changed mechanics?

For example, some extremely boosted high-XP-gain PK small-size temporary server, or just a normal server? Some new art? Actually re-rolling plants and runes so there's something slightly new at least?


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Re: New world interest check
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2015, 12:17:25 am »
yes please!

I'm up for either...though the high xp gain world means traders are useless after a week or 3 since fighters will have the skill to make their own gear.
why does Fox keep cancelling good shows?

Offline Kaios

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Re: New world interest check
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2015, 08:13:14 am »
Haven't seen Balmung post about his server for awhile now so I don't see why not.

For example, some extremely boosted high-XP-gain PK small-size temporary server, or just a normal server? Some new art? Actually re-rolling plants and runes so there's something slightly new at least?

If you're going to make a world, take it seriously. Don't add in any crazy wolf like double XP gain or weapon spawns with trapped behemoths or something like that. Stick to the tried-and-true methods you've seen that make a world successful.

Switching up the rune combinations and alchemy plants is a good place to start. 10x10 is a perfect size for a world in my opinion but 5x5 is acceptable and I agree a smaller world would likely mean more PK action but beyond that it's a lot less work to fill the sectors with mobs or quests. Personally, I prefer PK and stealing but at this point I would take anything. I think a non-stealing world that is partially PK in certain high level sectors or quests with the inclusion of a PK quest would be a fair compromise for all who would be interested. Activate bitching. I have a feeling many players by now enjoy the V2 client so go for a V2 version if you can but try to avoid Mickey's annoying V2 version of blacksmithing if possible, the original blacksmithing is far superior. Will add additional thoughts/suggestions later on if come up with any more.
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Offline Mongo

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Re: New world interest check
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2015, 09:39:08 am »
Yeah, I'd probably play on a new server. Switching up rune combos and alchemy plants is probably a good idea. You can get a little crazy too, reworking some aspects of the game that have been the same forever, namely weapons and magic. You can create some really neat spell effects and I feel like no one ever tries it. I would enjoy helping to overhaul the entire magic system, creating different categories of magic other than red/black/white/blue. Some people might be opposed to that, but honestly .. there's little enough that can be changed with a fresh server. We may as well take full advantage of the stuff we CAN change. Let me know if this is something you might be interested in and I'll get to work.
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Offline hazze

Re: New world interest check
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2015, 10:39:05 am »
Quote
If you're going to make a world, take it seriously. Don't add in any crazy wolf like double XP gain or weapon spawns with trapped behemoths or something like that. Stick to the tried-and-true methods you've seen that make a world successful.

I was thinking possibly something like "accelerated XP gain + entire world is PK + all skills are free + reset the world once a month and post leaderboards of highest levels" for something like that, not "here pick up your cooking knife at the door"

I don't want to step on any toes if someone else is already planning on starting a new world soon. I've read some of the other posts and I should probably point out right now that donations, paying for items, etc., will not be a thing for this world, ever.

BTW - does anyone have old files, images, inis I can base off of or take pieces from? Client-side files (.dat) work too.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 10:41:44 am by hazze »

Offline Kaios

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Re: New world interest check
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2015, 11:02:24 am »
I was thinking possibly something like "accelerated XP gain + entire world is PK + all skills are free + reset the world once a month and post leaderboards of highest levels" for something like that, not "here pick up your cooking knife at the door"

Either way, count me out of that. In my experience such worlds have never lasted more than a week or two, a month at most. It sounds like something that could be fun at first and maybe it would be depending on how many people actually participated in the PK but it would get old fast. Keep in mind not everyone likes a fully PK world either and I would make the argument that a large majority of remaining players are care bears and can't handle a stealing or forced PK aspect.

Quote
I don't want to step on any toes if someone else is already planning on starting a new world soon. I've read some of the other posts and I should probably point out right now that donations, paying for items, etc., will not be a thing for this world, ever.

That's understandable and frankly I wish certain other people would have given the same consideration. A contributing factor (one of many) as to why the player base of this game has dwindled is due to the fact that almost every single time someone got the urge to start up a new world, some other guy would see that too and then get the same urge. In turn they just end up splitting the player base between two or more servers and it ruins things for everyone (you asshole Tommy).

In any case, I don't think you have much to worry about in that respect. Screw Hexed, the server has had a good run and it's perfectly fair to give a new server a chance now. Other than Balmung who is currently on hiatus I am not aware of any others presently willing to set something up.
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Offline hazze

Re: New world interest check
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2015, 05:10:55 pm »
I'd appreciate if anyone reading this could fill out a short poll; all multiple choice and shouldnot take more than a minute. Thanks.

Click here.

Offline Greatest

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Re: New world interest check
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2015, 11:30:47 pm »
wipes once a month = bad
all skills = bad
accelerated xp gain = bad
whole world pk = bad

wipes mean no point playing because all your work goes poof.  no high level gear, no high skills, and as soon as you get an awesome house its gone.

all skills means no actual crafters since fighters make their own gear.  kills the economy.

accelerated xp gain means fighter get all skills even faster and once again make crafters useless.

whole world pk gets noobs killed all day because they can't defend themselves, which means lower player base.  a pk arena(no vitae loss) would be nice, and pk sectors are always fun.  I'm probably the only person to ever have no fighting skills to claim/build in pk sectors, but I'm crazy so its ok!
why does Fox keep cancelling good shows?

Offline hazze

Re: New world interest check
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2015, 01:19:02 pm »
Based on responses so far, tentative plans are:

● Non PK, half of world is forced PK, in addition to switching between PK/NPK, starting town is forced NPK, other towns will not be
● No multiple characters
● No tutorial island, but: spawn in a small non-town with attached practice area and some signs that tell you how to do basics, with immediate opt-out warp

● One vote for accelerated reset monthly world, majority is long term, so long term it is
● No permadeath, no stealing (both are majority no)
● Launch will probably be on a Friday evening, CST/EST US time zone
-
● Low level quests made first, high level quests come later
● Only one vote for empty world, majority is "A few quests and at least one town, but reuse some old maps"
● 0!!! votes on "default v2 blacksmithing", why is/was it default if no one likes it anyway? All comments say they don't want moulds.

-

One of the comments was
Quote
since the population of servers is usually gone within a couple weeks it can help to have multiple chars on main to make equipment it would take some away from people who only to traders but they would be the first ones to be able to make high level equipment
for "allow multiple characters per player".

What are your thoughts on starting with 1, and if the player base drops later on, add additional character slots or make it an acquireable bonus in game for some complex quest or otherwise?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 01:21:06 pm by hazze »

Offline Kaios

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Re: New world interest check
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2015, 01:49:31 pm »
● 0!!! votes on "default v2 blacksmithing", why is/was it default if no one likes it anyway? All comments say they don't want moulds.

I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say default V2 blacksmith, but when I think of default V2 I think of the crucible and mold system which I absolutely despise. The original blacksmithing system of using the ores directly on the coal pit simply uses a significantly less amount of clicking in comparison to the stupidly annoying crucible and molds. Plus, who really wants to have 50 different molds just to be able to make each subset of items? It's a hassle.

Quote
One of the comments was
Quote
since the population of servers is usually gone within a couple weeks it can help to have multiple chars on main to make equipment it would take some away from people who only to traders but they would be the first ones to be able to make high level equipment
for "allow multiple characters per player".

What are your thoughts on starting with 1, and if the player base drops later on, add additional character slots or make it an acquireable bonus in game for some complex quest or otherwise?

Who ever made that statement you are quoting has a rather skewed logic regarding this subject.

I do understand the issue they're afraid of and have of course seen it happen, tons of fighters on a server looking to buy this and that but no dedicated traders around to offer their services and thus the need for a second character. However, I don't really see how the addition of a second character totally eliminates the original problem that occurred in the first place.

In fact, I feel it only makes matters worse by denying those couple of people who play solely as a trader that may have actually put effort in to specializing a certain area only to find out selling their goods is impossible because everyone has a second character to do exactly what they do.

I guess the situation is essentially a double-edged sword, there's pros and cons to both aspects despite which route you take, you'll likely have to make a choice between the lesser of two evils.
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Offline Roarion

Re: New world interest check
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2015, 05:08:31 pm »
In fact, I feel it only makes matters worse by denying those couple of people who play solely as a trader that may have actually put effort in to specializing a certain area only to find out selling their goods is impossible because everyone has a second character to do exactly what they do.

It doesn't really matter either way for traders in my opinion. Most of the experienced players are going to roll traders in the first few weeks and then remake when they have built up some supplies. By the time they have used all the supplies they had from their trader they are level 40-50 and already have most of the trade skills again. The only way I can see it maybe working is to have a way for traders to level quickly and have high level crafting rewards for spec crafting (600+). The high level crafting makes a trader worth something even later in the game, but also limits the average fighter from maximizing their character until they reach a high level.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 05:12:49 pm by Roarion »
Asylum - lvl 33 Thrower
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Dementia - lvl 69 Spear
Nexus V2 - lvl 61 Stealth
Rebirth - lvl 72 Bow
Ganymede - lvl 56 Mage
Hex - lvl 1000 Admin
Future - lvl 1000 Admin
Retired - Unless V6 pulls a miracle

Offline Kaios

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Re: New world interest check
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2015, 05:32:44 pm »
It doesn't really matter either way for traders in my opinion. Most of the experienced players are going to roll traders in the first few weeks and then remake when they have built up some supplies. By the time they have used all the supplies they had from their trader they are level 40-50 and already have most of the trade skills again. The only way I can see it maybe working is to have a way for traders to level quickly and have high level crafting rewards for spec crafting (600+). The high level crafting makes a trader worth something even later in the game, but also limits the average fighter from maximizing their character until they reach a high level.

I don't disagree, you are right. A lot of people start with a trader, myself included, but not everyone does although of course the "fighters starting as traders" could and usually do help to supply those who begin as fighters. Anyways, my point is even so after I re-roll in to a fighter chances are there's always something I've forgotten to make or I'll need from time to time until I can make the stuff again on my own.

I don't think that really affects those traders who specialize either because through all the time it takes me to start as a trader, make my wolf, re-roll and get back to a level high enough to be self sufficient a player who is playing solely as a trader should have already reached a point where their skill in some area is an asset to the majority of the player-base. Of course, that also hinges on what you pointed out about higher level crafting rewards and I agree that is rather important and something which should be taken in to consideration.

I am still of the opinion that one character > multiple characters, but I'm not opposed to the suggested solution of starting with one character and perhaps allowing for a second later on if necessary.
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Offline Greatest

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Re: New world interest check
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2015, 08:58:19 pm »
as the guy who is always a crafter and never rerolls as a fighter, I see a couple things I'd like to point out:
1: fighters level way faster than crafters:
-more xp means more attributes
-more attributes means higher skill levels even without practicing said skills*
-this makes us crafters useless late game anyway, add in allowing a 2nd char and us crafters aren't even going to want to play

B: molds suck:
-full crucibles don't stack(and shouldn't)
-using stacks and F12 means things go quickly
-best way to level as a crafter has always been standing on an anvil with hotkeys
-molds and crucibles break that meaning crafters level even slower
● 0!!! votes on "default v2 blacksmithing", why is/was it default if no one likes it anyway? All comments say they don't want moulds.
its default because Mickey hates crafters!  thats why we have things like unearthed graves, and lower xp for crafters.

3: Crafters Money and NPCs
-early on people will rob the NPCs blind, so having them can be bad
-early on selling things to an NPC is the only way a crafter can make money, so if you get rid of them you'll need a replacement
-there are never quests for crafters, but you could add a supply type thing that would allow crafters to make some cash but not be abusable*2

D: I don't have an actual D so here are some random things
-I can't remember if I voted for stealing or non stealing, but V2 has a bug that makes it impossible to secure your land so if you can't find a work around for that glitch non stealing is best
-permadeath can be fun, but in RPGWO it is way too easy to die, plus it would suck for pk!
-no need for a separate start area, just add a practice area in a corner of town
-


*with blacksmithing as (dex + str)/3 and most weapon skills using the same attributes a fighter will start with bs well over the 100 mark even before you add in the jewelry bonuses.
*2crafter supply quest ideas
-for smiths: the town guards, they need basic weapons/armors 100 gold for a sword?
-for carpenters: fire dept needs buckets, stack of 5 gives 100 gold?
-for cooks: famine, town needs bread, 10 bread gets you 50 gold?
-for alchemists: mana pots for the mage corp, depending on if you reroll how they're made, price could change
-for masons: town wall needs repairs, stacks of bricks(25?) for 100 gold?
why does Fox keep cancelling good shows?

Offline hazze

Re: New world interest check
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2015, 09:50:57 pm »
Comedy thought: deny player deletion and force people to stay on one single character, how they start it is up to them.


There were some complaints raised in the poll comments about "too fast" progression, namely things like stacking potions and magic is too powerful or self-accelerating once you start being able to improve yourself, to improve yourself further.

Considering reducing magic buff +'s and rebalancing skillpoints to require people to be slightly more choosy instead of taking as many skills as possible too.

Can you explain what you mean by robbing NPCs?

Offline Roarion

Re: New world interest check
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2015, 10:23:58 pm »
Comedy thought: deny player deletion and force people to stay on one single character, how they start it is up to them.


There were some complaints raised in the poll comments about "too fast" progression, namely things like stacking potions and magic is too powerful or self-accelerating once you start being able to improve yourself, to improve yourself further.

Considering reducing magic buff +'s and rebalancing skillpoints to require people to be slightly more choosy instead of taking as many skills as possible too.

Can you explain what you mean by robbing NPCs?

The NPC starts with a default amount of gold usually set high by admins. Being the first one to sell to the vendor results in big $$$ for a single person.
Asylum - lvl 33 Thrower
Pyramid - lvl 40 Scythe
Dementia - lvl 69 Spear
Nexus V2 - lvl 61 Stealth
Rebirth - lvl 72 Bow
Ganymede - lvl 56 Mage
Hex - lvl 1000 Admin
Future - lvl 1000 Admin
Retired - Unless V6 pulls a miracle

Offline Alexander

Re: New world interest check
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2015, 11:37:37 pm »
Saint's Server was basically this.
It was high xp gain, high boosts.

I had to release content(quests/events) frequently to keep it fresh/fun.
Too many long time players were crying, it may not work.
The long time players seem to like the grind-fest and this game lacks the luster to bring in any new players.

EDIT: This game could probably thrive if we could get it onto steam.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 11:42:25 pm by Alexander »
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Offline Kaios

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Re: New world interest check
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2015, 08:03:19 am »
The long time players seem to like the grind-fest and this game lacks the luster to bring in any new players.

Here's the issue though, no we don't. When have you ever heard of a long time player like myself ever playing a character for as long as someone like Satyr has for example to over level 100. Very few people enjoy the grind involved in that, but very few people enjoy when you just hand everything over to them and that's the problem with having high boosts and high xp gain. The game is already easy enough as it is to a certain extent, there is absolutely no reason a server needs to make things easier by allowing for increased XP gain and greater boosting ability.

The point about mitigating the progression though I can agree with, depending on the type of server you create, leveling certainly can move at a rate that seems rather extreme in its speed. This also ties in with high end crafting rewards, boosts and requirements to make things should be adjusted so that for example a character who recently trained blacksmithing can't just throw on a +100 or +150 set of jewels, boosts and potions and go and craft Damon.

Skillpoint rebalancing can be an iffy area to mess with, you need to be careful you don't mess with the balance between a fighter and a trader and the different rates at which they progress need to not be vastly different.
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Offline Roarion

Re: New world interest check
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2015, 09:24:59 am »
Saint's Server was basically this.
It was high xp gain, high boosts.

I had to release content(quests/events) frequently to keep it fresh/fun.
Too many long time players were crying, it may not work.
The long time players seem to like the grind-fest and this game lacks the luster to bring in any new players.

EDIT: This game could probably thrive if we could get it onto steam.

I remember the server. Level 10's walking around with 400 stats, why even make content for 1-300 stuff if you're going to boost everyone past it. It made everything needlessly easy and none of the vets would touch it for this reason. Not to mention you banned everyone for dumb reasons. "I am Tigrym I was banned because I called Saint a monkey." - Your purpose as admin is not to meddle in any player affairs and update the server. If can't stand them prove them wrong or muzzle them. Ban is reserved for players who cheat and the most serve cases should be about a week long. You had banned half the player population in the first two weeks.
Asylum - lvl 33 Thrower
Pyramid - lvl 40 Scythe
Dementia - lvl 69 Spear
Nexus V2 - lvl 61 Stealth
Rebirth - lvl 72 Bow
Ganymede - lvl 56 Mage
Hex - lvl 1000 Admin
Future - lvl 1000 Admin
Retired - Unless V6 pulls a miracle

Offline hazze

Re: New world interest check
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2015, 01:38:20 pm »
Question's and thing's
Start NPCs with 0 gold (theoretically the only gold they will have on hand is money that other players have spent, correct?) or don't give them buyback capabilities if it's possible
Think about possibly making some skills cost more, or reducing starting skill points. This one needs some thought because the intent is to prevent a single person from getting too many skills to start off, but can accidentally fck over others
Reducing buff magic (like +int, +str etc) amounts
Reducing bonuses from items, capping somewhere around 30-40 or so? Reduce individual jewelry bonuses per item or set the cap somewhere that every item you have should be giving a different bonus to a different skill?
Possibly advertise outside of these forums and see if new users would be interested?
Modify experience for crafting usages to be increased? ["1: fighters level way faster than crafters"]
What are your thoughts on reworking standard potions in a different way: higher tier potions increase the time duration of the buff as opposed to giving more skill, allowing you to carry less weight/items around? The intent is to reduce outside bonuses.

Rules
What rules should be implemented?
Should chat be moderated heavily or at all?

Events
How should events or other "just for fun" things be run? Automated scripts? Manually run by admins?

Quests
What kind of combat level should quests be made up to at launch? Assuming normal, average gameplay, what defence/attack/level do players normally reach by week 1, week 2, week 3?
Is there a way to limit quest completions, for example rejecting further hand-ins for things like unique items? [3 *2 "crafter supply quest ideas"]
Would you be interested in random optional side quests? For example a locked door somewhere that requires a key from a previous (or even further back) quest, or a gift for helping out a NPC that you don't know beforehand or...
Randomly generated maps? Maybe some mazelike quests or dark dungeons could be different paths, different boss/reward locations every day

Offline Gimpy

Re: New world interest check
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2015, 05:01:22 pm »
I would come out of retirement. Also remove that lame weapon category system, all that did was force any one who plays for end game to go one of two weapons str dex or dex quick. Keep it simple and put some work in and i would come back full time.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 05:03:08 pm by gimpy »

 

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