Author Topic: V5 NPC  (Read 2797 times)

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Offline Mickey Kudlo

V5 NPC
« on: July 01, 2013, 12:50:20 pm »
Anything that moves around and interacts with the world is an NPC. It includes monsters, animals, humanoids, etc. So, for the most part I am just calling them all NPCs.

I am about to start working on NPCs and have a few issues I want feedback on. I want all NPCs to be able to level and resurrect.

1 - What level should NPCs start at? Should everything start at level 1 and basic skills? or should there be some skills and level given? Levels are generally compared to a human but *shrugs*. A rabbit would be level 1 with like unarmed = 1. An Orc would be level 1 but Axe = 50, so it doesn't make much sense. Hmm, I may not be explaining it well. I guess I am talking about natural in-born abilities right out of the womb and if level should reflect that or if level should = 1 at "creation" or birth. Because then players/humans would start off like around level 4 or so instead of 1. Gah! I am confusing my self now. OK, I think I will just give NPCs a starting level based on starting attributes. Like how V1/V2 does.

2 - Can NPCs produce offspring? Issues with that is overcrowding and the server not being able to keep up. Can regulate it and limit number of specific NPCs. Several ways to do it: server doesn't create it, NPCs kill each other off, events started based on killing them off. But... they just resurrect back onto the map... OK, so just need to limit them I guess or offspring don't resurrect. Just the original NPC added at creation can resurrect.
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Offline Zodiak

Re: V5 NPC
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2013, 01:11:25 pm »
Anything that moves around and interacts with the world is an NPC. It includes monsters, animals, humanoids, etc. So, for the most part I am just calling them all NPCs.

I am about to start working on NPCs and have a few issues I want feedback on. I want all NPCs to be able to level and resurrect.

1 - What level should NPCs start at? Should everything start at level 1 and basic skills? or should there be some skills and level given? Levels are generally compared to a human but *shrugs*. A rabbit would be level 1 with like unarmed = 1. An Orc would be level 1 but Axe = 50, so it doesn't make much sense. Hmm, I may not be explaining it well. I guess I am talking about natural in-born abilities right out of the womb and if level should reflect that or if level should = 1 at "creation" or birth. Because then players/humans would start off like around level 4 or so instead of 1. Gah! I am confusing my self now. OK, I think I will just give NPCs a starting level based on starting attributes. Like how V1/V2 does.

2 - Can NPCs produce offspring? Issues with that is overcrowding and the server not being able to keep up. Can regulate it and limit number of specific NPCs. Several ways to do it: server doesn't create it, NPCs kill each other off, events started based on killing them off. But... they just resurrect back onto the map... OK, so just need to limit them I guess or offspring don't resurrect. Just the original NPC added at creation can resurrect.

@1 - I feel as if the level range should be more randomized, with any group of people there are some that are more handy and skilled then others, but I'm not sure how you would make that work with killing them if they had too much of a range gap. It's hard to imagine ideas off your imaginary ideas :P
If they are like players, I think level gaps would make sense though.. Levels could possibly be viewed as a ranking system with in a group of NPCs <Shrug>

@2 The offspring thing with regulation would be nifty, a group of NPCs is essentially slowly but surely growing their numbers. It just really depends exactly what your wanting to do.


Offset comment: I think if you go with a system of offsprings, those mobs that are born have a randomized set of skills, if you want to really over think of it and you look at genders, and you had 2 npcs that had axe skill, then it should still randomly roll, but with a higher percentage to become an axe user? .. Just spitting out ideas.

Offline Roarion

Re: V5 NPC
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2013, 05:15:27 pm »
Anything that moves around and interacts with the world is an NPC. It includes monsters, animals, humanoids, etc. So, for the most part I am just calling them all NPCs.

I am about to start working on NPCs and have a few issues I want feedback on. I want all NPCs to be able to level and resurrect.

1 - What level should NPCs start at? Should everything start at level 1 and basic skills? or should there be some skills and level given? Levels are generally compared to a human but *shrugs*. A rabbit would be level 1 with like unarmed = 1. An Orc would be level 1 but Axe = 50, so it doesn't make much sense. Hmm, I may not be explaining it well. I guess I am talking about natural in-born abilities right out of the womb and if level should reflect that or if level should = 1 at "creation" or birth. Because then players/humans would start off like around level 4 or so instead of 1. Gah! I am confusing my self now. OK, I think I will just give NPCs a starting level based on starting attributes. Like how V1/V2 does.

2 - Can NPCs produce offspring? Issues with that is overcrowding and the server not being able to keep up. Can regulate it and limit number of specific NPCs. Several ways to do it: server doesn't create it, NPCs kill each other off, events started based on killing them off. But... they just resurrect back onto the map... OK, so just need to limit them I guess or offspring don't resurrect. Just the original NPC added at creation can resurrect.

1) Is XP still based off of level? If so it seems like dragons spawning at lvl 1 with 500 stats and then slowly progressing would take a long time to make them worth while killing.

2) Idea - NPC's spawn children and sell slightly different items based off of what their parents sold, children run around in the outside world in some range of the house and die to monsters. Maybe they start making little camps for themselves?
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Offline Greatest

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Re: V5 NPC
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2013, 07:19:38 pm »
I'm going to answer out of order so I can tie my thoughts together...

2: how about you make towns(caves/lairs/broods) for different types of creatures, and instead of having the creatures reproduce you have that reproduce based on how many are currently in world and have some caps in place.  this would tie in with your idea on wanting npcs to come from a place not just spawn randomly.

1: with a high social order you could have higher class warriors being born.  while a village of dwarves(spawn from special cave villages?) would have access to good materials and craftsmen it would make sense to have higher levels/tiers of warriors.  on the other hand wolves(spawn from a burrow?) would have basic abilities.  of course a wolf could be born really strong if there is a good wolf population and wolves are doing well, but wouldn't be super skilled.

then again human towns(for players not like brigands and whatnot) could just have a few basic npcs that respawn and not have growth...could get a little weird if they did since players will add to them.
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Offline Greatest

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Re: V5 NPC
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2013, 10:33:48 pm »
to expand on my idea: say 1 sect of dwarves are big, and have a huge city, they could make an expansion city in a nearby area*.  as they move out the towns would have less defenses, but as you get closer to their capital you'd have stronger and stronger dwarves.  if players kill lots of dwarves from 1 of the expansion cities that city would be abandonned and the dwarves go back to their natural home.  if you start killing dwarves from the capital you'll have fewer higher tier warriors and the town would be less defensable(sp) as its being seiged(players killing dwarf warriors or what not) until it reaches a minimum level where its like an abandonned city and only low tier monsters would spawn for a while(til the killing stopped and the area recuperated).  I'm not sure how much killing should have to take place to really take out a city but the idea of being able to conquer a city and make the creatures there leave sounds like a fun option(except for capitals, they need to be immortal I think).

*don't want to say sectors since I'm sure you're going to change the map and they wouldn't fit with sectors anyway.  maybe if you have what sectors are now divided into fourths and each section could be a town/spawn expansion area...
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Offline Zodiak

Re: V5 NPC
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2013, 07:56:48 am »
@Greatest -- Not a bad idea, population count essentially.. The immortal thing on their main city would just make me think of a never ending set of guards (Think how WoW guards work) but with the dynamic thing you could just make them come out of a barracks, of course that does cause them to slight spawn from mid air, other option is to set a population to the main town, if it gets ramsacked, some of the races in that area hide, and start repopulating.. if he does the level thing the level of towns would by dynamic then..

You slaughter a town that's level 50, you clear out the town, and when the town starts repopulating its in the 10-20 range, so it starts growing back up? <Shrug> just spit ballin'

Offline Mickey Kudlo

Re: V5 NPC
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2013, 01:24:14 pm »
OK, I see, you are suggesting RTS type rules for NPCs. Kinda sounds similar to Factions especially if you can choose your race. I was going more for individual NPC actions although I can do both. Either an NPC follows the community or they do their own thing.

RTS Rules
- Bio Spawn Vat of some sort would be placed randomly and it would spawn newborns at a steady rate. Faster if you provide it with materials. Can be destroyed but the system will just add another someplace. NPCs would build around it.
- Or add 4 NPCs to an area, a newborn is created as long as 2 are close enough. As long as life stone is there, they resurrect. Life stone can be destroyed.

I like the whole RTS approach. Would make it clearer to players what role NPCs play and how players can interact and affect them. Different races would get skill bonuses, like humans get sword/farming, dwarves axe/mining, grayvyn magic/alchemy, etc.

NPC coding is on hold for now though. Got a server running on Jon's machine and working out lag, disconnect and packet loss issues. Hopefully soon though.
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Offline Greatest

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Re: V5 NPC
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2013, 01:56:43 pm »
lol should have known you'd go factions from that...not quite what I meant.  

I meant if you have dwarves as mosnters(I remember being killed by a dwarven xbower before) they would react that way.  I think allowing players to start as different races would probably just add more weirdness to the game than anything as players will always react to each other the same way.  for example either a 'hi' or ''haha I just killed you' depending on the player, so you could end up with 2 dwarves killing each other while a human and dwarf are best friends...and that would ruin the whole faction thing.

so players would all be human but the rest, yea what you said for the 1st RTS style.

edit: and yea having their 'town' destroyed and placed somewhere else on the map would work better than making it immortal ;D
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Offline Zodiak

Re: V5 NPC
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2013, 03:40:31 pm »
so you could end up with 2 dwarves killing each other while a human and dwarf are best friends...and that would ruin the whole faction thing.

I have to slightly agree with this, but you can't always battle that, forcing a player to have no choice seems dull. All you can do is make the best of it, make several factions, and sub races of those factions, but no matter what you do you will always have those type players that will be friendly with the other faction, the only exception to this is you make some sort of need to kill the other faction, say to make your own faction not think you're soft.. almost like a reputation type thing.

Offline Aurora

Re: V5 NPC
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2013, 11:39:28 am »
I like the idea of reproduction, but how about a draft?
At birth a certain % (varies with peace/war time, which race it is (orcs would have more warriors), and maybe some other factors) would be taken and put into the military.  Military units do not respawn like normal player and non-player characters.
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Offline Sacrifice

Re: V5 NPC
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2013, 02:36:27 pm »
I think that Draft is an excellent idea.

Offline Generic Black Guy

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Re: V5 NPC
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2013, 06:07:02 pm »
Why not instead of absolutely random npc levels and skill sets, go off of real life, more like the middle ages, where if a blacksmith had a son... but then add the randomness of how good of a blacksmith is he. and with warrior npc production, go with training areas, like city guards and militias. and with creature spawns, go with the genetics. dont know if this helps any but just a thought.
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Offline Pokemon Steve

Re: V5 NPC
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2013, 06:14:17 pm »
Leave all numerical stats in the background. For players and npc. The only way to know what you can do is through trial and error. Stats are lame.

Offline Greatest

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Re: V5 NPC
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2013, 09:52:56 pm »
Stats are lame.
I played a game that tried that(Illarion) and theres a huge problem with it.  while real life you can see things, feel them, sense them in different ways, there is no way to do that in a game.  thats why those numbers are important.
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Offline Mickey Kudlo

Re: V5 NPC
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2013, 04:43:14 pm »
Some kind of genetics could work for offspring.

The draft idea to me means, NPCs at birth are set in their way and can't change long term. Sounds easier to program and have in the beginning but maybe limited long term. For example, a blacksmith runs out of ore and no miners around, they need to change to a miner. Or a baker runs out of wheat/food and changes and goes fishing or gathering or farming, etc. If the NPC doesn't change, they can't make money or eat or get drunk at the tavern, etc, and their morale goes down and who knows what happens, heh.

Leave all numerical stats in the background. For players and npc. The only way to know what you can do is through trial and error. Stats are lame.

I think you mean RPGs that just show a players level and XP. That style is more suited to combat only RPGs to me which is most of commercial mainstream. A diverse, dynamic crafting world needs some skills else their is no real character development. For example, a level 10 fighter can make anything a level 10 blacksmith can and vice versa, a level 10 blacksmith can kill anything a level 10 fighter can. It doesn't make sense unless you are using classes and I hate class based systems for individual characters although it has some uses for managing large parties like in my game RPG Party,
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Offline Greatest

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Re: V5 NPC
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2013, 07:54:34 am »
what if each NPC has 2 "professions", 1 major/primary 1 minor/secondary?  it works with your scheme of a blacksmith going to mine when hes out of ore(smithing primary mining secondary).  since you want to have them based on parents, maybe an npc who comes from parents with 2 of the same skills will have that skill higher than 1 from parents with different skills...but then you'd have to worry about a secondary profession that doesn't fit with the first.
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Offline Zacru

Re: V5 NPC
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2013, 03:22:42 am »
Not sure exactly how well this would work, but it might be worth considering.
I'm sure it would be very difficult to implement so it might need to be further simplified.
The idea is based on real life (very original, right?).

NPCs would re-spawn (most of the time) just like players do, but they would also age.
Their chances of not re-spawning increase as they age and eventually just die once they get old (60-70).
To make up for death they would also reproduce.
Most likely the would only reproduce during a certain age range (maybe 20-40).
Usually one (or two) of their offspring would inherit their profession/land/business/empire when they die.
The rest (not sure how many more you would have) would go on to different professions that were in demand in their particular community.
This way the population of a city would grow naturally. (ex FTW!)
Overcrowding could be controlled by diseases that would lower average life span (for example: from 50 to 40) so the old folks would die off quicker and leave more room for their kids. (ex gets owned)

(a) = bad,  (b) = good.
Overcrowding could also lead to higher rates of adventurous young fellows taking groups to go off and start new cities (either cooperative or competitive).
Birth rates could also be set based on population, and prosperity (kids are a long term investment).
Higher birth rates in newer, smaller villages to help them grow faster and lower rates in larger towns or cities.
I could see them being classified into just a few types of communities.
For example:
Camp: 0-9 people
Village: 10-29
Town: 30-69
City: 70+
And then maybe some special types like nomads that are always moving so they never get very big (always <30).

I could see this also being mixed with a little bit of the drafting idea.
When populations are growing fast there won't be enough land to inherit so those kids will join the armies.
Once they are in the army they have a higher chance to not re-spawn when they die.

Well that's my two cents for the day.
What do you think?

tl;dr - It's just a simplified version of real life population systems.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 03:24:15 am by Zacru »
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Offline Mickey Kudlo

Re: V5 NPC
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2013, 06:52:45 pm »
Well, after some playing and talking with players, I think that animals/monsters leveling probably not gonna work. Like someone said, new players coming to an older world won't be able to survive/compete. So am thinking just intelligent beings can level and resurrect. Animals/monsters would just spawn someplace on map (in their home sector) after 5 minutes or so.
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