Cleaning up a chaotic world

[Mongo]

A big problem with a world that can be modified to the degree that will be implemented here is people making the world look .. well .. ugly.

It is each players' choice how they want to design their land, but I think a few caretaker processes should be implemented to prevent things from getting out of hand.

1) Items left on the ground. Honestly, I think it looks just awful to see them just strewn about. Maybe items left on the ground for 24+ hours will de-spawn. Not fast enough that people would risk losing it by placing stuff on the ground temporarily, but just that the system is in place will discourage it. This can be helped with
A) Bigger boxes. Perhaps even boxes with wheels on them that the player can shove around (slowly).
B) Display cases - Want to show off your rare ore? Throw it in a display case (little lock-able case with the option to add a plaque to the front)
C) Mannequins - Instead of putting your armor and weapons in piles, build a mannequin and throw your spare sets on it.

2) Garbage -  I understand food rotting, but the garbage item it turns into looks too much like garbage and sticks around too long. Seeing piles of garbage as you roam is ugly. Maybe it sticks around for less time? Not sure what else can be done about this

3) Paved ground - Finding random spots of paved ground underground or on the surface is ugly. Perhaps restrict players from paving land they don't own.

4) Granite + Dirt - Lots of resources left underground that players don't want. They hang around way too long and make the entire underground look trashy. Perhaps a de-spawn time on them although it doesn't make much sense for them to just disappear. Not sure.

5) Ruins - I love the idea, but maybe the process of walls turning to ruins should be re-evaluated. For example.. maybe doorways and windows crumble in first, replaced with a graphic more resembling of a pile of broken wood (or whatever the material was) rather than a single rock. I would imagine it would also look better if the walls surrounding the doorways and windows also showed signs of degrading to flow better with the first one. From there, every wall or structure attached to a degraded wall or structure would start to degrade, forming piles of their own. If roofs are somehow implemented, they should collapse, making piles in the middle of rooms. These piles could also cover things like chests or containers, making scavenging a little more fun.

6) Terra-forming - Obviously people can dig wherever they want, build mountains wherever they want. NPCs will be able to do this too (theoretically). I'd think there should be some sort of erosion process to help smooth out land over time. I think I saw Mickey mention he had planned for something like this in the past.

7) Tree and plant life - Trees should be able to drop (acorns) to grow other trees so that a single tree left in a fertile environment could spawn an entire forest if left alone long enough. Not all plants need to be useful for alchemy, and a small variety of plants and weeds could be added that are simply for visual effect. They should also grow and spread.

Anyways, I think that's all I have here. I understand people will probably completely hate my #1 idea of items de-spawning if left on the ground but .. meh.

[Greatest]

1: it does look trashy with items all over the place, but what about items used for lighting, and tools(anvils and if he keeps them molds), I like the idea but it could cause trouble
a:bigger containers is always a good idea(I really loved the doubled container size of V2) so yea
b:idea thief, I suggested this somewhere(no clue where)
c:I like this idea too, and instead of just being pretty there could also be a practical use for them, use the mannequin and switch armor you're wearing with what it has on it...sort of a quick change for the lazy warrior

2: some servers actually have a use for garbage, and there are those of us who work hard making the stuff on those servers...I'd hate to see it go poof any faster(not to mention it still goes poof even when stored in a container, dirt does the same)

3: I'm way against this idea, if you can only pave where you own, there would be no roads(except premade roads if Mickey adds any),  and if you're working on a plot of land and want to pave it to stop ore from respawning before you claim you're screwed there too...

4: easy work around, remove dirt as a minable item(granite as the default was much better) and with more usages for granite people won't just ignore the stuff.

5:  sounds interesting...

6: bleh I like the idea of erosion, but I can just see the edges of someone's land becoming unflattened after they worked so hard to flatten it...maybe if the code only moved dirt from highest points(mountain tops? land above a certain elevation) to low spots near it basicly flattening that area, but very slowly

7: you don't know what you're asking!  in theory this sounds like a great idea, in practice there was Mickey's second V2 server that had entire sectors strangled off by thorn bushes...
as far as part 2: of course I'm all for having plants around just to look pretty, but its probably best to go with the potted plant idea UT had back on Arc 3k/Arc 2, not actual things that need to be planted and grown

[yeahs]

The clutter is what makes the game feel alive. A veteran can be able to tell if something is unclaimed/abandoned or owned by an active player just by looking at it. This is an aspect every great sandbox has like ultima online. Darkfall fails as an open world sandbox because you cant place items on the ground. Im against removing anything from the game. From my experience, removing aspects of a game is always bad. If you want to change something, do it by adding a feature and keeping the original thing

[Mickey Kudlo]

I think one of the "Crowns of Glory" for V1/V2 IS items all over the place!!! It is the definition of a dynamic, sandbox game: player's crap everywhere. I think it is awesome that one can walk around then.... BAM! you see a pile of gold or a dropped weapon or jewelry right in the middle of nowhere and you think, "This item has history. Someone was here and used it or died here." And I plan to make it even more interesting by having player corpses and remains to stay and spawn undead
And rummaging through a players ruined house is fun and lucrative!

So the main complaint is the world get "ugly" because of players. To me it is a beutiful piece of artwork created by players. I think players may just be used to a pretty, perfectly admin created and balanced world like WOW. My goal and want is the opposite because (I am lazy) and would rather give the players the tools to build the world like an RTS, sorta.

But let's take these one at a time:

1: Items left on the ground... stay on the ground. I think PLOT areas and quests was the only cleanup code I added.
 a: boxes with wheels is good idea
 b: display cases good idea
 c: mannequins good idea
 d: also, hanging items on the wall

2: garbage stays and should be thrown at your neighbors dog if they bark too much

3: paved roads will be VERY important in V4 since I am adding a Run mode that eats stamina. Roads/paths will allow stamina conservation.

4: dirt already goes poof. Cave ins delete items under them. Since dirt doesn't really have a use, I can see maybe when mining, you get nothing but that kinda seems weird. Granite is a resource and thus should stay. Dirt may become important though with elevation, we'll see.

5: ruins will get a makeover

6: maybe erosion with streams but probably not in general because you would need a mechanism to increase land height like volcanos, earthquakes and continental uplift then it becomes a tricky balancing act. I have tried long ago, heh.

7: V2 already does this If you haven't noticed, plants and trees drop fruit (which turns into seeds) or seeds (plants without fruit). Then the seeds will grow into that plant/tree. It is running on slow right now cuz like Greatest said, it can run out of control but at any rate slow or fast, plants will take over the world given enough time since there are no animals out there that eat them to regulate the growth. In V4 I want to add plant/seed eating animals and thus speed up plant growth and see what happens.

But honestly, I do sometimes get bugged by the messy land players tend to have but it their land to do as they please.

If we can get a decent government system going then the leader/ruler can make rules and enforce them on players that cover being clean, neat and organized, etc.

[Mongo]

Fair enough. I understand the concept of letting people put crap everywhere.. it's part of the genre. I'm just a little OCD .. I enjoy symmetry and categorization. On every server I've played, I've always had a storage room with all my crap, neatly categorized into boxes and some visual indicator as to the contents whether it be an example item above it or a sign.

When I have friends playing and we share land, it bugs the hell out of me when they leave crap all over my floor. When I walk by other properties and see piles of garbage and random crap strewn about, I cringe. But maybe with the addition of other container choices, display cases, etc etc .. people will be less inclined to toss their crap everywhere.

I didn't play V2 for nearly as long as I played V1, so I think I missed out on quite a few of the systems that were added later (dirt, plants, etc).

And Greatest, yeah it was probably your idea. I don't care about taking any kind of credit, but it was obviously a good idea or I wouldn't have remembered it! Props to ya.

[Greatest]

1a instead of boxes with wheels why not just make boxes movable when on the ground and ignore weight?(this is already done with stacks of items)

1d ooo shelves, or did you mean putting a shield on a wall like a coat of arms?  and now I want a coat of arms lol, imagine a few basic choices that can be made at the beginning of the game and they display on your flags/banners/shields while playing(nothing huge maybe a background color and a foreground item, and a color for the foreground item)

2 I don't think its that way in any of the V1/V2 worlds...I remember keeping garbage on my mule 1 old arc server because I bought a crapload of it and it went poof while in a container

3 will terrain flatness play any part in stamina drain while running?  I can imagine running uphill taking more stamina than running on flat land(basic drain), which is higher than running down hill...or am I getting too detailed on a system you're planning to leave plain/bland/basic?

4 instead of getting nothing, since you liked the mineral idea for mining, how about some smaller minerals/metals that can be obtained from dirt(such a generic word)?

6 lol would be fun to see something like that...but like I said before I can see it causing problems, and with you bringing up earthquakes and volcanoes I can just see someone's house being split in half or some poor guy logging in with lava flowing around his bed

@Mongo lol found the post, seems I also suggested the mannequin idea.  I'm not after the credit either, just had to point it out!

http://rpgwoforums.net/index.php?topic=4505.msg71719#msg71719

leaving the link here since it ties into this thread alot

[Mongo]

Decorations are huge, especially lighting. Just think of how many people had mana plants lining the roads in their land.. not only was it a permanent light source, but the soft glow of the blue plants looked pretty awesome.

[Greatest]

I was rethinking my coat of arms idea...if you choose at the beginning of the game you may end up with something someone else is using too.  a better idea would be to allow certain changes to be made to items when they're being created(again basic color and an item and item color).  would be awesome to have banners/flags in a throne room that sort of personalize it...

as far as mana plants, I've seen people do that(don't think I ever have) but I do like mood lighting.  maybe we could have craftable items that can be used that way(similar to the iri bulbs), I know everyone loves el tikis, but since they're usually quest only traders have a much harder time getting them.  I'd like to see any item in the game craftable by players!  we discussed rare drops and monster parts before, if it takes items like that its still better than having monsters able to make items players can't...atleast in my opinion.

[Vicious]

2: garbage stays and should be thrown at your neighbors dog if they bark too much

Make garbage a throwing weapon for EQU pvp events.

[Greatest]

2: garbage stays and should be thrown at your neighbors dog if they bark too much

Make garbage a throwing weapon for EQU pvp events.

lmao or just a normal throwing weapon...can just imagine someone being hit in the face with garbage for low damage, but get a weird message when hit.  pies would be a fun throwing weapon too!(and actually give cooks a reason to make them)

ewww stinky garbage for 2 damage
you've been PIED for 1 damage

[Mickey Kudlo]

Pie damage would be more like blind for 4 seconds or something.

[Mongo]

Garbage should kill off livestock, make plants die off when next to it, and cause nearby food to mold faster.

[Vicious]

Pie damage would be more like blind for 4 seconds or something.

In that case garbage should poison.

[Greatest]

lol of course everyone loves my worst idea ever

maybe when you're attacked by garbage you get attacked by random fly swarms since you're stinky?  could be overpowered in pk, but seems like a neat idea...

[Greatest]

rethought that last post...how about a stinky debuff: lowers your charisma by 5-10 points, adds flies to your image(like the ones in the garbage image), and since you have annoying flies swarming around you lowers your attack by 20(?).

can remove the debuff by using a tub or sink so those items will have a use now besides giving weird people like me the chance to add a completely useless bathroom to thier house...

[Novibear]

That would make sense maybe you go get a bucket of water and put in in them or use a pump of some sort to get clean water to use.

maybe tailor for a wash cloth or something.