Poll

should some skills just go poof?

yes
2 (33.3%)
no
1 (16.7%)
maybe
3 (50%)
no opinion
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 6

Author Topic: skills: new, replacements, and abandonned  (Read 2348 times)

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Offline Greatest

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skills: new, replacements, and abandonned
« on: July 09, 2012, 01:31:33 pm »
so we had a discussion about certain skills that were either useless or overpowered, it died with no resolution and I can't find it.  so I'd like to discuss a way to get rid of some of those, or atleast balance them out...

some things that came to my mind:

general:

tinkering this replaces locksmithing and trap and allows you to both make and pick locks and set traps(really seems weird that it currently takes 8 skill points for those 2) could possibly also add fletching to this since thats mostly just tinkering also...

camping(name?): combines/replaces fishing and first aid, if you've ever been camping you know how to treat a minor wound, and how to fish

weapons:(these allow ease in switching between weapon types as long as you know the weapon style)

piercing weapons allows you to use any weapon that uses piercing damage, such as spears and daggers

slashing weapons allows use of weapons such as swords and scythes or other slashing weapons

blunt weapons crushing damage: maces, staves, flails

hacking weapons access to weapons like axes and halberds

archery bows and xbows...and maybe ballistas?

magic:(with the new mamgic system being discussed there will probably need to be a lot of changes these are just a few ideas I've had)

blessing: this will allow you to cast only helpful spells(like the positive red and white spells) on yourself or your group(if groups are added)

sorcery: allows you to cast direct attack spells and area effect damage spells

cursing: spells like the the fun white magic spells, and debuffs from red magic

enchanting: basicly blue magic...

crafting/gathering

lumberjacking(name?)*1: chopping down trees.  making it dex strength instead of dex wis...since this has traditionally been a part of farming and not all carpenters have the wis to chop the big trees it should be split, and have the points taken from farming, maybe 2 points for lumberjacking and 3 for farming?

blacksmithing: yes we already have it, but I'd like to see it changed to only allow crafting with basic metals not precious metals

finesmithing: this is what you'd use for precious metals, such as gold and silver...allowing you to make jewelry coins and silver tea sets(or atleast the items that actually need silver)

there are probably other skills that need tweaking but I have to leave soon so you guys discuss what I already wrote out, and the poll is just so I get my poll starter badge ignore it if you want

*1 when the new mold system was added it got rid of the need to use wooden handles to make tools, as a carpenter wooden handles were sort of an easy way to make a few quick coins as if you don't have carpentry, an axe, and a saw(both of which used to need that wood handle to make) you were screwed...I'd like to see usages added back for things carpenters make, and maybe even some wooden armors(yes you can make armor from wood and its really effective against things like arrows and slashing weapons)...you've been phasing out certain skills over the past few years and it unbalances the game a bit
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Offline Gimpy

Re: skills: new, replacements, and abandonned
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2012, 01:47:14 pm »
so you want to turn this into everquest? makes sense

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Re: skills: new, replacements, and abandonned
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2012, 03:31:36 pm »
never played everquest...atleast I don't think I have(name sounds somewhat familiar)

maybe you should add a little more, discuss what it is in everquest that you don't like that you think I'm trying to suggest...or just take what I suggested and give an actual critique or even offer a suggestion of your own.

or are you just trolling as usual?
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Offline Mickey Kudlo

Re: skills: new, replacements, and abandonned
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2012, 03:53:16 pm »
In V4, I am not planning to have skill points since every skill is trained at the start so some of your issues go away and doesn't make sense to combine skills.

Trap and lockpick probably should be 2 skill points each in V1/V2. They should still be different though.

First Aid and fishing are waaay different too.

Interesting that a 100% crafter giving weapon skill advice, heh, but no, I think each weapon really has its own ability and skill in using. Some do cross over so maybe this ties in with the Mastery idea you had before or similar to it.

We/I am looking for some different magic skill names that go with the mantra idea. Maybe each mantra is a skill but there could be hundreds of mantras by themselves. Maybe a subskill they would be. Maybe just 1 skill "Magic" or "Casting" plus a mana conversion skill.

I already pulled lumberjack out of farming and called it forestry: cutting down, caring for, seed harvesting, planting of trees, etc.
Farming would be just for plants and bushes, not trees.

FineSmith could work. It would cover trinkets and jewelry except gem cutting. Gem Cutting would be a new skill I think.
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Offline Gimpy

Re: skills: new, replacements, and abandonned
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2012, 10:24:49 pm »
your trying to change rpgwo from what it is into something els, currently its a very costumizble game, your trying to catagorize everything

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Re: skills: new, replacements, and abandonned
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2012, 12:28:07 am »
@Gimpy, I'm not trying to categorize things, we already have skills in place...I was just offering a way to combine a few to make things simpler(honestly if you can use 1 type of weapon why can't you use another thats similar?)  and by doing that make customization even more customized(yes that makes sense if you read it more than 7 times)

@Mickey, I'm still against starting with all skills...I've played a few games like that and it always ends up being sucky because you either get stuff cheaper just buying crap from an npc, or you're unable to get anything because the people who can make it are busy trying to get better stuff for themselves...its a weird world out there for crafting games where there are no actual crafters, but people who craft to support their fighting

as far as the mantras...I still have no idea what you mean :-\ ??? you never really explained those too well

and yes I'm always a full trader here, but I play other games too so I'm experienced as a fighter/mage/archer/tank/priest :P so I felt like giving an idea

can't wait to see the new forestry thing...although I think planting the trees should still be farming, but theres a huge logging company near where I live and they replant after thet clear cut an area so I guess it can makes sense to have it your way

and adding finesmithing and leaving the cutting of gems to another skill will cause trouble...unless you add other stuff to give bonuses from just fine smithed items without gems set into them or making the finesmither buy gems or sell socketed items...actually that could work out pretty well on getting the economy going instead of a few do it alls(like me) trying to do everything
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Offline Mongo

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Re: skills: new, replacements, and abandonned
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2012, 08:46:53 am »
I feel like the first thing that should be done is to take all the skills in V2 and make them all 5-point skills. That is to say, every skill should be balanced so that they're equally effective (in different ways). I agree this may mean re-categorizing some things.

"Camping" should include fishing, making fires, tents, wilderness survival stuff. More of a package skill.

"Trap", as it exists in V2, isn't very impressive. However I think instead of packaging it up with other skills to make it worth using, increase the effectiveness of the skill. Add to it, more traps, make it easier to plant them in a fight, add 'grenade' type weapons (more like caltrops than actual grenades, but my point was short ranged thrown trap-like devices).

Pairing Trap with Locksmith makes sense if they're under 'tinker', but I just feel like trap COULD be made cool enough to keep it in its own category.. and I'd rather see that.

Locksmith .. no idea where that belongs.

Unless some skills require less XP to level than others, then every single item on the skill list needs to be balanced... and that means grouping SOME things.



Edit: Magic, I feel, still requires discussion as far as the actual creating and making of spells goes. However, I think it's safe to assume there will be 4-6 'categories' of magic, each with their own skill.. plus a 'scribe' skill to make scrolls or whatever was decided.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 08:50:11 am by Mongo »
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Offline Greatest

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Re: skills: new, replacements, and abandonned
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2012, 08:26:52 pm »
"Camping" should include fishing, making fires, tents, wilderness survival stuff. More of a package skill.

yea...thats sort of what I was going for, but first aid was really the only thing I could think of throwing in there with it. 

we don't have too many things like that in RPGWO, but I could see it used to find some types of foragable goods but thats something extra that would have to be added...would be awesome though, using the camping skill to find some goodies(new type of plant maybe?) that can only be found spawned in the wild(forced rarity) that can be used to improve items?  maybe you'll need alchemy to refine it(or sell them to an alchemist), but then when its used on an item it gives it a bonus, damage bonus on weapons, higher quality/longer duration on potions, reflects some damage back to attacker when used on armors...stuff like that, well maybe the big stuff would just be the rarest of the items like that but still have smaller foragable items also

you made me rethink my suggestion and I like where its going, but I think Mickey is going to hate us for it
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