Author Topic: Bosses and Party/Loot systems  (Read 2515 times)

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Offline Mongo

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Bosses and Party/Loot systems
« on: May 29, 2012, 01:49:25 pm »
I was thinking about how "boss"-type monsters could be implemented.

Since there will be dungeons, there should also be bosses at the end. Who doesn't like to fight a big bad dragon at the end of a long adventure? These bosses would probably require a couple people (maybe if it's an instanced dungeon, the dungeon can scale to the players' average level or something).

Some games (Lineage 2 and others I'm sure.. but Lineage 2 is the only one I know of) implemented "world bosses". Usually not more than a couple of them at any time, almost like a dungeon boss but a bit bigger/stronger. Doesn't require completing a dungeon to access them, they will simply be rare spawns that, when found, people would want to group up to take out.

"Named" bosses - Taken from the Diablo games, the "Named" monsters are ones who have a randomly generated name (from a list of prefixes, first names, last names, and suffixes) like "Puke Cannon" and "Gore Lust the Unholy" and can spawn randomly with a normal group.. they are the 'elite' or leader of the group. Doesn't necessarily require a group to take out but they will be a challenge.





I'm also adding some thoughts on party and loot systems instead of creating a bunch of threads.

As far as I know, V1/2/3 never had a 'party' system. I don't know if this is planned for v4, but I think it should at least be considered. I think the only thing a party would do is maybe some indication of where your party members are (either an arrow on the side of your screen to say "Party member 1 is in this direction" or a map indication if they're close enough) and loot distribution. Standard loot options could apply such as "round robin" or "random" to ensure fair distribution while adventuring.

When writing the above and talking about killing bosses, it occurred to me that this would almost require a monster 'claim' system. I know V1/2 had a system in place where if one player was to do 99% of the damage to a monster and someone else just got the last hit, the first player would get the loot, but what about a party?

Let's say there's 5 people in a party. They bring a boss to 1% health then one guy leaves the party. When the loot drops, who has claim to it? I would think that the party would be counted as a single entity which would have to update in real time.. so if someone left (in an attempt to snag all the loot), they would no longer be part of the party and wouldn't get anything.

This only matters if a party system is used and, like I said, should only apply to looting. XP would not be shared through a party.. there's no point (since you get XP per hit/skill usage rather than a killing blow).
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Offline Tokoshoran

Re: Bosses and Party/Loot systems
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2012, 03:23:55 pm »
Star Wars: The Old Republic had world bosses. They'd sit there, out in the open, and if anybody, even at the max level, tried to solo it, they'd die in ten seconds or less.
I suppose given the way RPGWO works they'd have to be a bit weaker than that, since typically you won't have fifty people in one spot... Considering they can't all fit there!

Elite monsters sound fun, but I would prefer that elites are rare, whereas a more common 'Uncommon' monster would be only a little harder than usual, with just a slightly higher amount of gold (humanoids) or has a chance of dropping an uncommon version of their loot instead of the typical version. This would not be named after them, rather just be "Uncommon Wolf Pelt" or something, so it can stack with other uncommons. Uncommon loot could maybe be 25% or 50% more valuable than normal?



Something I didn't like about Round Robin, Random, and Damage King (or whatever they call it) is that sometimes I'm helping out lower level people and don't want the loot. You should have the option to opt out of the loot list for regular loot--maybe just be included when it comes to Uncommons, Rares, or Uniques.

Instead of dropping a pile, maybe bosses can drop a "Reward Chest"? Only the party that killed the boss has access to it, and, based on the loot system, players could take turns choosing the items they want, or apply "Tokens" to vote to get it.

On tokens: say you're a staff sporting wizard, and a boss drops a staff that is both good as a weapon, and as a magic booster. You would really want that staff, so you put in all your tokens for it to guarantee you get it.
Meanwhile, the group's Tank and DPS both put tokens towards two swords that dropped. Half of their tokens go to each sword, just incase somebody else put more than half to the other. Round Robin determines that the Tank got more of the recent drops than the DPS, so the DPS gets the "first" one, and the tank gets the second. First would probably be the bettter one.
Finally, there are a few potions dropped. The healer and a rounded warrior put tokens towards these. The healer has three tokens on each potion, whereas the warrior only has two on each. The first potion goes to the healer, but round robin determines the warrior gets the next one, then the healer, then the warrior.

If loot is determined based on random chance (Need & Greed does this), tokens wouldn't be all that useful--instead, passing up on items will increase your next roll, when you finally choose to get an item. This can be abused to save up your roll for a good item, so it should top off at a certain amount of passes.

Finally, on the subject of shared exp, there should be a tiny bit of shared exp when with a player-based party, but if you go about hiring NPCs, then the shared exp should be greater. For example, golems and tamed monsters should net you experience, as is done in V2.

Offline Mickey Kudlo

Re: Bosses and Party/Loot systems
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2012, 04:19:54 pm »
V1/V2 had bosses but you seem to be asking for more dynamic monsters and ones that require multi-players to take out. Wasn't the Grayvyn Behemoth like that? Easy to hit but had high attack and life so you kinda needed a group or at least and wizard to ice him. I was thinking about giving monsters some kinda range of randomness in skills when they spawn. Like an orc is 110 to 90 in skill or something. Also, wanted to code in V3 monster parties so group spawns aren't all the same kinda monster. So maybe that would work.

I don't have any experience with a party system but it seems they are designed to share risk and reward.
- Shared XP, like 50% goes to earner then rest goes to other members or something like that.
- Shared Life/Stam/Mana. I know I had a spell for this, a Bond spell that allowed ppl to share attributes. So, if 1 dies.. you all die?
- Shared loot. Once a member makes a kill, any member has access to grab whatever but it gets told to the rest like "Mickey looted +2 Frost Long Sword of Blindness" that way you know if someone is hoarding and you can quit or whatever.

Any party system needs to be simple cuz really, Guilds in V1/V2 were really a grander, more complicted party system.
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Re: Bosses and Party/Loot systems
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2012, 07:33:56 pm »
I don't have any experience with a party system but it seems they are designed to share risk and reward.
- Shared XP, like 50% goes to earner then rest goes to other members or something like that.
- Shared Life/Stam/Mana. I know I had a spell for this, a Bond spell that allowed ppl to share attributes. So, if 1 dies.. you all die?
- Shared loot. Once a member makes a kill, any member has access to grab whatever but it gets told to the rest like "Mickey looted +2 Frost Long Sword of Blindness" that way you know if someone is hoarding and you can quit or whatever.

shared xp should be based on monster, you get xp for doing damage to the monster, maybe you get a bonus for landing the hit that kills it, but the monster should have a kill xp(based on monster level maybe?) that goes to each player in the group when its killed.

life stam and mana shouldn't be shared...and an entire group shouldn't die because 1 person does something stupid

gold should be divided between the party, items should go to the person who does the most damage to the monster

Quote
Any party system needs to be simple cuz really, Guilds in V1/V2 were really a grander, more complicted party system.

your guilds were nothing like a party system!  guilds are to help each other with big stuff(and sometimes small stuff) party system is just for a quick fight, I think the best guild/party system I've ever seen was the one from Conquer Online.  to make a team you click a button, then people can join or can be invited, team leader can boot players from the team max of 5 players...guilds on the other hand were huge, you had a leader and deputy leader(appointed by the leader) who could accept new members, they had guild wars(with rewards for the winner) guilds could ally with other guilds or set other guilds as enemies(setting a guild as an enemy there is what you have as guild wars here)...its a great system
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Offline Tokoshoran

Re: Bosses and Party/Loot systems
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2012, 08:35:31 pm »
In the Starcraft 2 map Night of the Dead, the Psi Ops class had an ability to link their life with their allies, but if any anybody got hit too hard the link was severed--If it's from anybody but the Psi Ops, it's just that one person, but if it's the Psi Ops, everybody gets the link severed.

Would probably be a pain to implement, but say 25% (Possibly modifiable by the caster?) or more of the total life pool gets punched at once, the link would be severed from whoever took that damage. In large groups, that would be painful hard to accomplish, since the life pool would be so high.

This would be a good method to take out "World bosses," if they're going to deal a hundred damage anyways, get a group that's bonded together to fight him, the overall pool could easily surpass 500 health, so if you got a healer standing back casting level four heal, the damage would be undone right there.

 

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