Alpha/Beta Testing and Wipes

[Mickey Kudlo]

One of the biggest things that makes it hard for players to test early on, is frequent wipes. You spend a few weeks really training and getting your player(s) leveled then a wipe happens. So, I will be adding XP cheats, maybe item cheats and some kind of player backup/restore. That way testers can fully test the game system and not get frustrated, loosing their hard work and time.

The XP cheats would be applied to skills and would naturally raise spendable/total and level.

Item cheats would allow you to create hard to get items like an admin so you can test usage and balance.

Backup/restore would allow you to save the state of your player, do some extreme testing like send vitae to 99% or kill all the NPCs, then restore the player back. It would also let you restore your player after a wipe but keep in mind, the wipe probably introduced a new concept and your restored player may be out of balance (either high or low) for the new world system. But still, nice to have

Probably if any of these commands were used then the player would be marked as "cheated" and probably loose some abilities like being PK just so they aren't abused.

[Kaios]

Wouldn't it be simple enough to just create items and then delete the character? Or if you make the "cheated" account based, use a proxy for a second account and just hand off the stuff.

Well either way whatever problem/remedy you can come up with, wipes are a part of testing a game. You don't need to allow players to cheat for them to test everything in my opinion. In fact I think that would cause more bugs to be missed than found.

[Mongo]

Gotta agree with Kaios... if you allow people to cheat and get to level X immediately, the beginning of the game will never get tested.

I agree that you don't need all players to start at level 0 after every wipe, but you need a few...There's gotta be some solution.

[Greatest]

wipe the world, but not the players?  at a certain point skill is better than items, and all items can be recreated easilly.  of course with the exception of a saw, pick, and axe which you could put on an npc?  or even change the build process for those? 

as long as players still have the skills they had, they can continue testing the world and each step/process along the way.

[Mickey Kudlo]

My concern is players giving up and stop testing because they keep getting wiped.

Perhaps make it an admin requested thing so I can give it to a few trusted (or pissed off I wiped) players.

[Mongo]

It depends on what you changed, really. If you added a bunch of stuff that only higher level players would be able to test, then obviously it makes sense to start some people there. If you changed how the world is generated and how some core systems function, you need it tested at every level. Etc, etc.

[Kaios]

My concern is players giving up and stop testing because they keep getting wiped.

Perhaps make it an admin requested thing so I can give it to a few trusted (or pissed off I wiped) players.

Listen to player input, do good, frequent updates and don't involve Jon this time unless that bitch is going to put some money down for advertising.

[Tokoshoran]

Got world save working.
Now working on getting unit definitions (item def) to clients. V1/V2 had items and players as seperate data. Now using a Unit to specify everything. A little more complicated to code but allows for easier content manipulation like you can attack trees if they get sassy with you.

Gotta say, attacking trees sounds like fun. Will they have droplists for if "killed" instead of chopped? Like, you get a bunch of branches and no logs?

[Tokoshoran]

Fff I thought I removed that second quote tags, guess I just removed the inner tags from it. That was me saying that, not Kaios.

[Kaios]

It's unfortunate you can't edit your post due to someone being the biggest tool on this planet.

[Kaios]

Yet for some reason I can facebook like a post? Wtf is that?

[Novibear]

Yeah I wish I could edit some of my hasty posts riddled with bad grammar and spelling.

[Tokoshoran]

There's no reason whatsoever to not have post editing. No matter how cautious a person is, they'll make a few mistakes that need to be fixed.
Well, I suppose that's not entirely true but the editing should exist from the start and be removed for the specific posts that should not be edited (The proof that somebody's BSing mod stuff).

Speaking of tools and RPGWO, what if some warrior runs around the world killing (not farming!) every single plant? Will there be protection against that? It was mentioned that cows and such will reappear if they go extinct, and if plants count as "NPCs" then it doesn't sound too big a stretch to repopulate them, though it should be based by sector (if that sector can support those plants).

[Mickey Kudlo]

There's no reason whatsoever to not have post editing. No matter how cautious a person is, they'll make a few mistakes that need to be fixed.
Well, I suppose that's not entirely true but the editing should exist from the start and be removed for the specific posts that should not be edited (The proof that somebody's BSing mod stuff).

Speaking of tools and RPGWO, what if some warrior runs around the world killing (not farming!) every single plant? Will there be protection against that? It was mentioned that cows and such will reappear if they go extinct, and if plants count as "NPCs" then it doesn't sound too big a stretch to repopulate them, though it should be based by sector (if that sector can support those plants).

Well what if a farmer goes around and harvests all the alchemy plants? Oh wait, they do all the time on v1/v2 heh. Cuz of that I'll probably have some kinda of root left over that grows back or the system will detect none in the wild and add some.

[Greatest]

There's no reason whatsoever to not have post editing. No matter how cautious a person is, they'll make a few mistakes that need to be fixed.
Well, I suppose that's not entirely true but the editing should exist from the start and be removed for the specific posts that should not be edited (The proof that somebody's BSing mod stuff).

simplest way to do it would be to allow a post to be editted/deleted until a reply is made...

I'm against attacking plants, if you can attack a plant and get parts(seeds logs fruit) from it, then farming loses alot of its value.  combine that to the coding you added in V2(laying seeds on unplowed ground had a better chance of it growing than plowing and planting) and farming is completely useless.

[Greatest]

edit: wouldn't be completely useless, you'd still need it if you were a tailor since removing the seeds from cotton is farming.  I think it should be tailor not farming.  the only argument I can think for having it as farming is that it gives seeds, but getting seeds from any type of fruit is cooking...why the double standard?

[Tokoshoran]

No, see, if you chop down a tree you get say 6 logs and 10 branches. If you beat it down with a club, you only get three branches, MAYBE a couple of sawdust piles. You get the useless bits in a much lower quantity, making it only useful for a warrior who finds himself faced with a Wall Of Plant, which, let me tell you, is ANNOYING. I may have farming at all times but I don't have a wood axe at all times, so I run into the WOPs and have to detour five plots to get around it. Not to mention how annoying it is when you run into one on somebody else's plot.

Which gives further reason to be able to just kill 'em. That could be done even on another's plot, but would still leave the roots/stump to regrow. Maybe roots would regrow faster than a stump.

Trees should also be scripted to only take so much damage at a time, maybe per weapon type, so that, while a good solid axe swing would take them down, you can't just chop them in one stroke of the sword.

[Tokoshoran]

Although removing drop lists entirely sounds reasonable.

[Mickey Kudlo]

Well, if you attack a tree or any object, you are destroying it. A tree becomes pulp. A stone wall becomes dust, etc. It is still a useage of a sort although applied differently. Although, to think about it, with everything a unit, combat is really just another usage. Just a universal usage that applies to all things no matter what is in your hand. Hmm, maybe tools should be in hand to use now too. Like pick for mining, axe for chopping, hammer for carpentry, cooking knife for whatever happens in the kitchen, etc.
Need to think about this and how to implement it the easiest.

[Tokoshoran]

Will you script things to take low damage (even just 1!) with the improper tool equipped, but the proper type can (CAN, not will--) actually slay it more easily (--dependant on your skill; low skill means you still deal that low damage) and actually net you the items from it?