Skills - Proposed Implementation Changes

[Mongo]

Shared XP for tames sounds really useful (although the fact there are no V2 servers makes it tough to test), but without some level of customization for the tames, Blue Magic golems would probably still be better.

Will monsters have different types? If they're classified by type (Insect, human, etc; maybe something more specified), then it could be programmed so certain types can do the different tasks like farming and cooking, as well as equip different things, I would think.

.... I really just want a roach to plow my field.

It would be nice if somehow Tames and Golems behaved differently, having a benefit to each. I'm not sure what could be done though. Maybe since you can tame a variety of creatures, you can do a variety of damage types and be more versatile whereas Golems will just bash regardless.

Maybe even taming a humanoid creature would allow you to modify their equipment .. give them some armor and weapons. I imagine you wouldn't be able to do this with a golem.

[Tokoshoran]

Yes, exactly! Golems would be able to carry a weapon, maybe (if even), but beyond that, their attributes are based on what you made them from. Insects would maybe be able to equip a 'shell' item, swarms nothing, humanoids a full player set's worth...

[Tokoshoran]

I did a quick test on V1 with forcing the players to start with every skill... You get overburdened right off the bat.

Will the starter tools for V4 be very light weight?

[Greatest]

I did a quick test on V1 with forcing the players to start with every skill... You get overburdened right off the bat.

Will the starter tools for V4 be very light weight?

drop the anvil and the plow you'll usually be ok...both are easy to remake, and you never need to carry either early in game

[Mickey Kudlo]

Well, if all skills trained then I figured it a matter of choosing like 4-6 practice items. Like a practice bow (comes with arrows), practice clippers, practice plough and a practice cooking knife.

[Tokoshoran]

Well, if all skills trained then I figured it a matter of choosing like 4-6 practice items. Like a practice bow (comes with arrows), practice clippers, practice plough and a practice cooking knife.

Well, the materials that you need in order to actually make more tools are the Axe, Saw, Pick, and Hammer and chisel. You can make the anvil and pit with the stone you dig up with a pick, and the logs you get with the axe can be sawed up two or three times for staves and handles for all the tools.

That said, I suppose some people would want to start with practice tools for other abilities, relying on other players for the other stuff.

[Zachariel]

Or, instead of spoonfeeding everything to the player,
theres a new character introduction that describes the
storyline and provides any necessary item, depending
on the character skill set, on the go?

I mean, you could just toss a new player into the world,
hand him tools, weapons, whatnot and send him his way, OR...
you can craft an interesting main storyline for each themed server
that the new player can choose to follow, which describes
why the world is what it is and gives a new player a specific
goal to strive towards.

It is far more interesting if the player is told that an evil mage
has summoned him along with other players from another dimenson
to create an unstoppable army to take over the game world,
than just toss the player in the middle of town and say:
"Here are your tools, you're on your own now. Now, get!"
In that proposed storyline, the player would follow scripted
missions in the mage castle, during which he would obtain
necessary items depending on his skill set and have his first choice
to side with good, evil or remain neutral.

You would not even require "practice" items anymore, since the
player would be provided with some basic training in their skills.
Furthermore, it would be fun if the player is given a lame-a$$
wooden weapon or another item and at the end of the tutorial mission,
the practice item would magically transform into a higher level
version, meaning it levels with the player, albeit slowly, and has
magical properties. This way the player has some incentive
to hold on to his practice equipment, which could evolve into
some semi-endgame items (again, very slowly and probably as part
of the main quest to prevent training en-masse).

By the way, all tools should be singular. By this I mean that there should be
separate "Hammer" and "Chisel" items and both of them should be
present in the inventory if using their combination is desired.
For example, detailed woodcraft requires only a chisel, because
its' a precision work. Similarly, a hammer as a separate entity is used to
forge metal at an anvil.

[Tokoshoran]

So a jeweler's chisel, mason's chisel, and carpenter's nails all use the same hammer?

[Zachariel]

A sledgehammer does get jewels cut faster.

P.S. no real jeweler will chisel their diamonds, since
striking action creates fractures. Precious gems should be
cut with a fine saw, faceted on a turning wheel and polished.

Although you are correct that too much tool separation will
make obtaining crafting tools too laborious, which is no.1
game killer. Perhaps there should be toolkits for each crafting
skills. They would contain all the necessary items and the player
would be able to assemble them as they please, making possible
to assemble toolkits with different quality levels, eg "Master Jeweler Toolkit".

P.S. dont you think its funny that there is "jew" in "jewelry"?

[Tokoshoran]

Well, Zach, that makes plenty of sense, except that fine jewel cutting would be a later level jeweler thing.

The hammer for hammer and nails would be a flat-head toothed hammer or whatever they call it. The hammer for hammer and chisel wouldn't be a sledge-hammer (I think that honor goes to the forging mallet), but it would likely be a heavier type that the one used in carpentry.

This means you'll have a bunch of different types of hammers cluttering up your inventory.

[Tokoshoran]

Oh, I just had a thought: We want to encourage player cooperation, right? Could skills level faster when working with others? Even if the others are simply nearby, like a morale thing (only this one is direct, not like the Morale stat you suggested), working alone would be boring but you're more inspired to work when others are near.

[Zachariel]

It would be fun if the player would be allowed to add a sledgehammer to his
jewelers toolkit and when he uses it, the game returns:
"You smashed the gem into millions of pieces!!! Are you crazy?!?"
And then later on there would be some secret end-game potion recipe
that requires gem powder...

Working with others is a good idea, but to a certain extent.
Certain actions like lifting something heavy or tugging a rope
would require teamwork, but not solitary perception crafting.
I do not get jingles and happy motivating vibes when im trying
to concentrate and there is someone breathing into my neck.
Im sure all of us have tried not to think about how the person
sitting behind us in the class is basically staring down our
necks all the time. Ooh,look! He has a pimple, and its HUGE.

[Greatest]

the toolkit idea I like.  better tools, better results! although a great crafter can work with any tool he has...that being said as a carpenter you'd have an easier time making fine cuts with a coping saw than you would with a crosscut saw

maybe better tools increases the chances of making improved items, but have no factor in your ability to actually make the item?  ie: master toolkit with 10 skill trying to make an item that needs 100 skill means you still have a low success chance, but if you actually make the item it won't be as bad, while at 200 skill with a master toolkit you'll probably make the best possible item each time.

guess now we have to figure out how a toolkit will work.  there will be certain items that have to be in each kit, but does the quality of the tool matter or just the types of tools?  a basic smithing kit might include a basic mallet, while a more advanced kit would also have ball peen hammers, straight peen hammers, and possibly a magnet(don't quench a katana til its nonmagnetic or it won't curve back right ).  while something like a tailoring toolkit(sewing kit is already in game) would need a needle and thread for basic, and add things like scissors, pins, and thimbles to improve it.

an easy way to set most of these up would be tool belts.  can be made of leather and would give tailors a function in game besides making bags.  tool belts of course would only work for the tougher crafts, I can see other things like an apron(add tongs a ladel and spoon to improve it) for cooking but not really sure what other skills would need...

[Kalose]

Oh, I just had a thought: We want to encourage player cooperation, right? Could skills level faster when working with others? Even if the others are simply nearby, like a morale thing (only this one is direct, not like the Morale stat you suggested), working alone would be boring but you're more inspired to work when others are near.

Although thats a nice idea it is way too easy for guilds or groups of friends to abuse it for xp boosting. With just my family who play on rpgwo when a good server is running there are 6 of us. so all of us could easily go do a skill near each other and gain a major xp boost. But if it was implemented that lts say user 1 was tailoring. and user two was tailoring on the same pile of clothe (its on the floor) then both users could gain an xp boost from that...but even with that added it would be just as abusable =/. like the idea though lol =)

[Tokoshoran]

I'm not saying it would be a giant boost, Rafiki, just enough to encourage doing stuff near others. Could be as minor as "Skill Boost for 3 from nearby friend"--Though it wouldn't spam you about it getting removed or added. Greater level of skill means easier success, meaning more experience.

Or it could be a small percentage boost on the experience you get from it; it wouldn't ever be a huge boost because by the time your skill is high enough to do the task, an additional ten points wouldn't be much at all, but just enough to want it for the sake of speeding up the leveling anyways.

If you REALLY want to encourage fair player trades, then you could give exp for a secure trade that sells an item. To avoid abuse, this bonus would only be available once a day for each item for each player--receiving an item uses up the daily exp, even if the receiver would receive less experience. Trading a sheet of iron for some planks of wood would give them both a boost based on the values of the planks and the iron (Finally, Value would have an actual purpose, instead of being a random number).
You could also, if Karma is implemented, make that boost for karma instead; "The gods smile upon you for your willingness to help each other out."

[Tokoshoran]

I suppose a boost would be abusable regardless of how you put it in, but there should still, encouraging working together is something that should be done.