Author Topic: Elevation  (Read 6998 times)

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Offline Mongo

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Re: Elevation
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2012, 10:39:03 am »
I like where this is going. As far as elevation, I don't think we can NOT have it.. I never thought V1/V2 looked terrible although at night it was often hard to see which direction things were sloping in.

I think it would be fine if the whole game had the perspective of the GV screenshot there, but updated.

It might also be possible to have a sort of mesh (not sure if that's the correct word) over the edges to smooth them out. They would all still function as though they were blocky edges but the mesh would smooth them out to make it look more like a rolling hill than a polygon festival.
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Offline Mickey Kudlo

Re: Elevation
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2012, 10:43:10 am »
Is it possible to do iso map with 2D gfx? What would that look like?

Um, that IS a screen shot of 2D gfx doing iso in my old game I made back in 2004. It is the strategy.zip file in the rpgwo client install folder.

>:( thats fine like I said cylinder is better than flat

OK, I understand. It like a pinched, semi sphere, sort of. I like the cylinder too. The only thing with a wrapping map is we can't expand the world later if we ever wanted to. We could just add new dimensions I guess, heh.
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Offline @@Admin Nash

Re: Elevation
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2012, 01:38:19 pm »
Oh lol I knew what it was from I guess I meant that type of map with RPGWO image files type of thing

Offline Zachariel

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Re: Elevation
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2012, 06:55:15 am »
Full virtual 2D sphere gives the best open and unlimited globe world illusion.
You can literally go around in circles as you please and circùmvent the globe,
as you can do in real life.

Besides, this configuration provides the best gameplay experience.
It would be weird, if it would be implemented in some limited form as suggested
in previous posts.
It would make me ask: Why can't I walk from one side to the other?

All such limitations are well defined in the book "Game Architecture and Design"
as one of the biggest pitfalls game devs tend to make.
Yes, I am reading actual literature on game development.

« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 07:07:23 am by Zachariel »

Offline Mongo

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Re: Elevation
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2012, 07:42:02 am »
As was posted by Mickey somewhere, the biggest problem with this is it makes expanding the world difficult. You set a fixed world size with this format and the only way to 'add' additional areas is to have a player teleport there .. which is honestly a fairly lame implementation.

I love the looping world. We just need to find a way to deal with an expanding world as well.
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Offline Greatest

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Re: Elevation
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2012, 07:44:25 am »
the earth(as with most planets) is a sphere, you can't walk all the way up to the north pole and all of a sudden be at the south pole.  if you cross the north pole you'll be heading south on the other side of the world(as I suggested) and I'd rather see the world as a cylinder than as a...I don't think there is a shape that fits what you're asking for
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Offline Zachariel

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Re: Elevation
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2012, 11:58:31 am »
You mis-imagined the looping world in your head.
The loop does not suddenly teleport your player from north
to south. Well, it does so in the sense of the 2D map that is
probably going to be on the HUD.
Imagine walking on the 2D screen is a continuous smooth
motion where it is impossible to determine where one sector
begins and the other ends, since the character is constantly
at the center of the screen.
The south portion of the map is just stitched onto the north
portion, when the player continues to walk north. It will seem
like a smooth transition, as if there was no end to north.

In the case of a 3D sphere, he should begin to walk towards the
south pole by now, having crossed to the other side of the globe.
In the case of a 2D imaginary sphere, the "poles" are the center
and the north edge of the screen.
Distance between two poles has to be equal, right?
Well, in this implementation it is.
You just misplaced the "south" to the south edge of the map, which
is why it seemed to you as if the player was illogically teleported
from north to south.
If there was east "pole" and west "pole", this same conclusion will apply.
The true game world east is not at the east edge of the screen, but
at the center of the screen, while the west is at the west edge.

In fact, the placings of the virtual poles are totally arbitrary.
The game map still spans and is generated from left edge to right and
top edge to bottom. You just have to pick two points on the map
that are at equal distance from each other when measured in both
directions and use those as your poles.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 12:03:24 pm by Zachariel »

Offline Mickey Kudlo

Re: Elevation
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2012, 12:57:21 pm »
The cylinder map idea seems more logical but it has a major issue.
When you move up from the top of the map and end up logically move just horizontally, if you move up again, you head back up to where you were, looping forever.
If the map changed directions according to your facing like WOW and 3D 3rd person view then it would work.
I think the north and south poles should be blocked/voided and east/west connected other wise the whole thing should be wrapped.
I am not worried about expanding the world. This isn't earth world rules. We can have other "planets" or "planes/dimensions" that you can warp to or be gawd ported to. Or some type of vehicle or ether vessel/ship.
You may have conquered my worlds, but I destroyed them!

Offline Tokoshoran

Re: Elevation
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2012, 01:03:55 pm »
Instead of an actual cylinder or 'donut' world (as Civilization calls it), you could have it so that if the player steps into the edge of the world, they teleport to the other side. That way, you don't worry about players building a home on two plots on either side of the world that connect, only to be torn apart when the world is made bigger. Yes, they may be used to walking two plots west to get somewhere, only to suddenly have to walk a whole sector, but I certainly wouldn't mind that.

Otherwise, the other-world idea you just posted works great. I don't care if we have to run all the way to 5,5 to jump into a wormhole that takes us to 5,5 of the next world (and then back), it sounds fun.

Offline Zachariel

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Re: Elevation
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2012, 01:22:34 pm »
I think the north and south poles should be blocked/voided and east/west connected other wise the whole thing should be wrapped.

How come east/west are more special than north/south?
If you connect east and west, how come you can't connect north/south?

On a spherical object, such as a physical real-world planet, all poles are "connected".
You said yourself that you wanted an open, dynamical sandbox world.
Blocked north/south don't seem quite open to me.
Is it really that difficult to wrap all game world edges into the opposite edge?

Preferring the cylindrical model is like saying that i can travel from London to Peking and
around the world in eastward direction back to London again, while I can't take off with
a plane from London to Antarctica and around the world in southward direction back to
London, because there is some magical barrier splitting Antarctica in the middle.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 01:27:09 pm by Zachariel »

Offline @@Admin Nash

Re: Elevation
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2012, 02:25:27 pm »
I like the stitching idea, that is what I think would be best

Offline Mickey Kudlo

Re: Elevation
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2012, 04:31:42 pm »
I think the north and south poles should be blocked/voided and east/west connected other wise the whole thing should be wrapped.

How come east/west are more special than north/south?
If you connect east and west, how come you can't connect north/south?

On a spherical object, such as a physical real-world planet, all poles are "connected".
You said yourself that you wanted an open, dynamical sandbox world.
Blocked north/south don't seem quite open to me.
Is it really that difficult to wrap all game world edges into the opposite edge?

Preferring the cylindrical model is like saying that i can travel from London to Peking and
around the world in eastward direction back to London again, while I can't take off with
a plane from London to Antarctica and around the world in southward direction back to
London, because there is some magical barrier splitting Antarctica in the middle.

I can wrap it either way, it isn't difficult. The issue is how close do you want it to a sphere and reality. It most likely will be a world.ini setting as to what gets wrapped.
You may have conquered my worlds, but I destroyed them!

Offline Greatest

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Re: Elevation
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2012, 11:53:11 pm »
I think the north and south poles should be blocked/voided and east/west connected other wise the whole thing should be wrapped.

How come east/west are more special than north/south?
If you connect east and west, how come you can't connect north/south?

On a spherical object, such as a physical real-world planet, all poles are "connected".
You said yourself that you wanted an open, dynamical sandbox world.
Blocked north/south don't seem quite open to me.
Is it really that difficult to wrap all game world edges into the opposite edge?

Preferring the cylindrical model is like saying that i can travel from London to Peking and
around the world in eastward direction back to London again, while I can't take off with
a plane from London to Antarctica and around the world in southward direction back to
London, because there is some magical barrier splitting Antarctica in the middle.
blocked north and south poles works best!

I'll eleaborate on your example to better illustrate whats being said: if you take off from london and go south to antarctica you'd then have to continue travelling north(once you've crossed the pole) up and around through the middle of the pacific ocean, and onward north til you pass the north pole and from there south again til you're back in london.  you can't hit the south pole and out of nowhere end up at the north pole.  if you take off from the western US, and go north once you hit the north pole you won't end up at the south pole.  instead you'd be going south down the other side of the world through Russia and China til you reach the south pole and start your trip north again.

I'd rather have a cylinder than a 'donut' which is pretty much what you're getting at(thanks Toko I had no clue what to call that shape :P), since crossing the poles is hard work anyway(only been done a few times) while going around the world isn't quite as hard...cargo ships do it all the time
why does Fox keep cancelling good shows?

Offline @@Admin Nash

Re: Elevation
« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2012, 12:15:31 am »
Zach is talking about  a true globe, not walk up to north pole and end up at south pole. he is saying walk up to the top of the world then walk down the other side...like earth.

Offline Tokoshoran

Re: Elevation
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2012, 01:09:30 am »
I call it a donut globe. I'm not sure what the whole logic behind that is but that's what I call it.

Offline Greatest

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Re: Elevation
« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2012, 01:11:43 am »
Zach is talking about  a true globe, not walk up to north pole and end up at south pole. he is saying walk up to the top of the world then walk down the other side...like earth.
that was the idea I offered before.  he wants north to connect to the south, not north to take you over the top so you can go south...unless I really read that wrong, but from what he said and looking at his drawing I'm almost certain he wants to be at the south pole when he reaches the north pole.  doing it that way makes absolutely no sense. 

I can see it being a donut because no matter where you are on a donut you can walk around it, ie: cylinder thats bent around so the ends touch

if I'm wrong then my argument is retracted and my apologies...guess we'll have to wait for him to clarify
why does Fox keep cancelling good shows?

Offline Tokoshoran

Re: Elevation
« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2012, 01:17:24 am »
OH, thanks Greatest. Now I understand calling it a donut.

Offline Zachariel

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Re: Elevation
« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2012, 01:17:50 pm »
Actually, you are correct. It is a donut, if you twist the 2D map that way.

However, you are talking about the trees while im talking about the forest,
the big picture. Look at it from the top-down players perspective.
When he begins to travel in whatever direction he chooses, he will always
end up where he began from, which is how a spherical planet behaves.

The player has a limited field of view. "going around the world" in whichever
direction gives the impression of a spherical, unlimited world, which
has been my purpose all along. It does not matter if its a 2d map with
teleporting edges, a cylinder, a sphere or a doughnut for that matter,
as long as the player perceives it as a spherical planet.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 02:00:16 pm by Zachariel »

 

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