RPGWO Forums
General => RPGWO V3 => Topic started by: Mickey Kudlo on July 13, 2017, 11:31:33 am
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I made the starting town and was planning on making a middle town with a road connecting them. But should I let players build it in game?
Probably look at the Guild Town code and use that? I would prefer players build the towns and NPC stuff and I will build quests.
I would need to code the towns as dynamic some how. As long as the guild supported it with food, gold, supplies, then the town remained, else it would rot away some how.
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sounds great.
e: guessing guild town = only guild claims possible, or perhaps guild claims can only be in said town
and maybe use something like the old bandit raid script for it? (maintaining activity etc)
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wouldnt a road on unclaimed land decay over time?
what if someone claims a land that has part of the road and removes it?
if u claim for plot, how would players build roads.
i like these ideas, i totaly forgot about that old bandit raid, that was fun at low lvls but got boring as u lvled up, if u do something like this can u make it based off average player level who is online, sorta like how seiges are based off player level?
whatever u do dont make it too over bearing with the food /gold/ supplies that the town requires, dont turn this into a daily chore...id personaly let a town rot before i had to go and kill cows cook jerky or legs or whatever and go run around feeding a town everyday.
a towns main use is more of a ... "ok this is where ill park my trader" hub
if u want to make a town and ull need to find ways to make all the traders u put up useful.
example...every time i had to id feed the jewlery girl cuz i can sell her the crappy jewlery noone will pay for, but trader joe? tiger that guy gonna starve cuz i know a guy with blacksmith and he can make all the wolf he sells anyway..
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I think you should revisit the Guild Town code.
If you go with that route may I suggest maybe the idea of auto populating guild towns with NPCs if certain requirements are met.
Say if certain items are placed in a room, say an Anvil, Coal Pit, a Chest, and a Bed. After a check would spawn in a Blacksmith (weapon/armor) NPC that would be tied to the guild and the guild would receive a % of the sells. Then because there hasn't ever been a real gold sink, allow use via commands or some sort of set of items that allows for upgrading the NPC to sell higher equipment or a trade skill that corresponds with the NPC and you, through a process, make something that upgrades the NPC to allow for better equipment.
Example: Standard NPC sells copper items, you make a set of items out of iron to allow him to sell some basic Iron items (hell make it harder by making a requirement of 1 of each iron item to unlock the function)
Side note: I also like the idea of the NPC selling a certain amount of equipment before the upgrading process is possible. It may seem a little tedious but I like the idea of players getting together for a common goal to make the best town.
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I think you should revisit the Guild Town code.
If you go with that route may I suggest maybe the idea of auto populating guild towns with NPCs if certain requirements are met.
Say if certain items are placed in a room, say an Anvil, Coal Pit, a Chest, and a Bed. After a check would spawn in a Blacksmith (weapon/armor) NPC that would be tied to the guild and the guild would receive a % of the sells. Then because there hasn't ever been a real gold sink, allow use via commands or some sort of set of items that allows for upgrading the NPC to sell higher equipment or a trade skill that corresponds with the NPC and you, through a process, make something that upgrades the NPC to allow for better equipment.
Example: Standard NPC sells copper items, you make a set of items out of iron to allow him to sell some basic Iron items (hell make it harder by making a requirement of 1 of each iron item to unlock the function)
Side note: I also like the idea of the NPC selling a certain amount of equipment before the upgrading process is possible. It may seem a little tedious but I like the idea of players getting together for a common goal to make the best town.
this sounds good, a shop space with certain requirements would fit well with a scheduled raid that destroys walls/etc, would require some degree of maintenance on the players end without being overly tedious (being required to supply xxxx items on a regular basis)
for the npc upgrade, something like "/npctrain skill x" x being a tier, a skillcheck for the player using it to increase said vendors inventory, on top of the required inventory traffic?
e.g. /npctrain blacksmith 3, with a skillcheck about 100 higher than the requirement to make iron for the npc to stock/buy iron gear (yea iron is 4th, but no point training them to stock tin)
maybe that's too complicated? idk, just a thought.
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i know these are ideas n all, but what would happen if said tradeskiller with the skill req to get that /npctrain blacksmith 3 were to leave the guild? this could be easily exploitable
this idea of zodiaks is awesome..remove the /traderbuy all together and force this option.
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ah yea, didn't think about exploiting it :( oh well
e: Although... what would be the purpose of this kind of exploit? I'm not seeing it, i would assume the guild owner of the land said npc is living on would be collecting some kind of income from it? which would discourage someone changing guilds to do it for someone else, unless npc shop inventory doesn't refresh with any regularity (i thought it did?) it could be used to have more npcs selling more armor i guess.
e2: and yea, this replacing player traders would be interesting
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I like the idea of not everything based around commands, but if /NPCTrain becomes a thing it should track who did it and if they are still in the guild, if player leaves and there is no one in the guild able to match it downgrades the NPC. That way the idea of "exploiting" by guild hopping would just be killed from there. I think ItemUse style usage would just work better overall with this idea.
I don't necessarily think it would be the greatest idea to get rid of personal traders, but limiting it to one wouldn't be terrible. I mean we do have a trading system but RPGWO isn't this huge player base game like WoW for example, so in the time you're on you may not see a person that has exactly what you need so that's why traders come into play. I think we have several options to go with on the "trader" side of it to change it up or improve on it.
1) Auction House style system, /traderbuy is completely ditched with this option.
2) One trader purchase per person, guild towns can decide to add an area for traders and potentially set a tax %, which allows for guild towns to possibly fight over people selling their goods in their town, with the obvious option to just leave your trader on you're own land.
3) Like option two kinda, but the traders/vending machine are rented from said guild/guild towns. Maybe rent from multiple guilds?
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It just hit me you may have been referring to guild trader buy.. Oop!
In that case yes I totally agree of getting rid of them, people can sell stuff themselves and donate gold to the guild or donate the items to the guild land / guild vault.
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just readin these n thinkin about how it would play out...
just thinking of having 6 or whatever guilds tryin to make towns in the same sector seems silly to me...
any idea on how this could b avoided
5x5 world so sector 3,3 is probly going to be where the logical ppl would try to make a town
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I don't think you need to do anything to battle multiple towns in the same sector. If you wanted to be a successful town you would go where the people are. So sure you could have 5 towns build in 1,1 but eventually 1,1 won't be populated enough to really matter or support 5 towns. I think the real idea is when the server opens it's all about getting prime real estate. The better idea would be to go out maybe in 5,5 and build or closer to more of the end game area to build that way you're established there before anyone else decides to "try" and compete.
Now in the end if you do think you need to battle this some, if it's a huge worry, is to force guild war on any towns built in the same sector. I know this whole thing is just piling up with ideas and this might be a bit too much, but I think if you did that then allow people to eventually be able to "hire" raids on the other towns you're in a fight with. Its been a very long time since I've played.. hell it could be a whole nother game, but if I recall one version had an outlaw flag, and I think it wouldn't be too out there to set a flag like that on people that start a raid on a town. Kind of puts a target on your back as you try to kick a neighboring town out of "your" sector.
Mickey is sitting here reading this stuff going "um, too much.. Ill just add a town with a road". Lol.
Edit/Addition : I'm probably thinking a larger scale then something like a 5x5 world. I think worlds should be a lot bigger then even 10x10 sometimes just to fit different biomes, monsters, and farming spots in. Just kind of builds onto the idea of the game needing more layers to it.
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could simplify it and have a few designated areas be GuildPLOT or something, as the only place guilds can claim(and only guilds can claim there) so mickey would just designate locations for towns, and the rest would be up to guilds, would also make it easier to implement something like the raid script, as locations are already set.
would be limiting in other ways though.
and yea, i'd think something like what you're saying zodiak would be more for a larger world with a much larger population, though it'd be pretty cool if something like that came about.
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I think that the first guild land claim would need to be in a sector free of any other guild land claims. That would keeps things spread out enough but they could still be claimed next to each other, in different sectors, and compete.
Would probably have 2 types of guild land claims: town and road.
- town would need to be next to another town claim, could build anything, costs more, limited by guild member count or something
- road would need to be next to a town or road claim, can only build road and signs, costs less, no limit allow members to claim/build to anywhere, roads would increase speed of movement somehow
Not sure what would be the best way to get an NPC to town. Maybe you build a marker like "Weaponsmith Marker" and you put it where you want them to spawn. They will only show up if the town/room meets the requirements. Like a coal pit, table, etc., plus maybe a food NPC in town or even a miner NPC since they need food and ore.
Hmmmm, and to get a food NPC you need a farmer NPC who needs some kinda crops/trees growing and farm tools. If crops get destroyed then the farmer leaves or the farmer gets killed then it affects the food NPC who leaves and then everyone who depends on the food NPC, etc. A domino effect. Processing would happen like once per real day and guild members would get alert messages about it.
One way to give value to NPC Traders in a guild town would be to have Treasure spawns on them. It would use your member upgrading them feature to increase the number and level of the spawns. With 10 ores, we would have 10 levels. Level 3 is now Cobalt so once per real day, N number of Cobalt weapons with various + would spawn on the weapon NPC and the old ones would be removed. That would encourage players and members to check it out frequently.
Currently the Guild Town code:
- limits land claims to number of members, land claim still based on 20x20 so need to edit it for the new 10x10
- guild town mode doesn't share XP to members for some reason
- there is some kinda tax system too and town charges
I would rather code features that players can use to build with than spend time building maps. RPGWO is supposed to be dynamic after all... right?
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I've been thinking larger scale so I was worried about running out of room for guild towns (shoot for the sky! Lol), but in the current state of RPGWO having 1 per sector would be doable. Perhaps a bonus for guild members if they build houses in the same sector as the guild town. Those bonuses be based on if the house is connected to the road in some manner (touching the road). I do like the idea of limiting the size of the town based on size of the guild. I think there needs to be checks on active user count and/or a gold sink in the upkeep of the land.
The marker system wouldn't be too bad. I think you could almost do that now with the current scripting system, but it wouldn't have everything tied to it guild-wise. On that note I'd really like to see more support and usage of the script system. I think it would allow more of a "plugin" system for future rpgwo servers. I don't know how many times I've had things I have been working on that got crapped on by the lack of commands I can use and more recently the way it runs scripts. The whole "wait" and "maxlinecount" system kills so many things I've been working on. Wait puts such a big wait time that it doesn't feel smooth and if you don't have that then it loops so much that it just errors out server side and causes it to lag/wait anyway.
Having a domino effect wouldn't be too bad, just don't want to make certain things too tedious in which people don't even want to micromanage things too much. At least thats my two cents.
Could you do guild levels for the NPC treasure system? Higher guild level increases the CHANCE of a treasure spawn on the NPCs, NPC level increases the type of treasure, and active guild member count increase the number of potential treasures? I'd also like to see chance of something like an "adventurer" that would spawn into town randomly giving different quests and of course people would come to your town to participate in those type quests if you got something of use from them.
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guess I'm late to all this(busy week >:(), but I'd like to offer another idea: town areas that can be claimed by a guild. by that I mean maybe the middle plot(s) in each sector could be used for making a town, and only the middle. this would mean first guild set up gets a bit of a bonus on which sector they claim, but Mickey's idea would have done this anyway. from this point in the center of the sector they 'rule' the sector(laws, taxes) I don't think there should be a limit on how many sectors a guild can own, but each sector they own has to be 'defended'(ideas for this later in my post). if a guild owns a sector only members of that guild may claim land in that sector(land already claimed not affected), unless they get permission from the guild(deed? has to be an item that the guild leader can make/sell without too much trouble). once a guild claims a town a few basic npcs should show up and more should come as town is upgraded. mule/trader monster parts guy npcs at level 1, lower tier rune/weapon/armor npcs and guard captain(for hiring town guards) at level 2, some basic quest giver(s) at level 3, etc as levels increase(max level 5?)
defense ideas:
other guilds can challenge them to a guild war and take over a sector(town level resets to level 1 if taken over?)
must upgrade town(atleast level 2) before you can claim a second sector, fort/castle/keep along with some basic shops/farms
new sector has to be upgraded before you can claim more
can 'hire' npc guards from fort/castle to defend sector from monsters/enemy guilds, money sink as guards need a weekly salary
higher level town->higher level fortifications->higher tier guards
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Would probably have 2 types of guild land claims: town and road.
- town would need to be next to another town claim, could build anything, costs more, limited by guild member count or something
this confuses me, to claim a town or rather to claim a plot that would qualify to build a town on....it has to be next to another town? or am i not understanding this right?
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Would probably have 2 types of guild land claims: town and road.
- town would need to be next to another town claim, could build anything, costs more, limited by guild member count or something
this confuses me, to claim a town or rather to claim a plot that would qualify to build a town on....it has to be next to another town? or am i not understanding this right?
he means if you want to expand your town you can claim another 'town plot' and build more town stuff there, but it has to be next to the main town(no gaps).
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The initial guild land claim is allowed anyplace as long as no other guild is already in the sector and if you got the money and if you got the members, um yeah.
Every guild land claim after that, needs to be next to one of your previous guild land claims.
Guilds can do whatever they want with the land and currently there isn't any real value to have it. But if NPC traders come and bring value like treasure spawns then it worth it for guild to build dat shiat. Of coursse what will probably happen is they will wall them up and block access, heh. So, would be nice to give a bonus to outsiders having access, somehow, or have the system detect if they wall in.
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I could also see this being abused if people were given a bonus of some sort while on another guilds land whats to prevent people from each just making their own guild and doing stuff on a friends guild land all the time for whatever potential bonus you may get from doing so? Its kind of a 1 sided bonus and only beneficial IF people wall up the guild land to keep intruders out, Which from 90% of my previous experience isn't the case on non stealing servers
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The prevention is the upkeep and member count needed to own a town. I think if this bonus route is taken maybe allow guilds to activate bonuses based on member count for a maintenance price and allow for a weekly land tax for the players that stay in that sector. Guilds could compete over players building in their sectors.
Maybe even add a system that for so many people (per account) own their land there the guild receives a bonus.
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How about dealing with town building like an RTS? You need to build buildings and structures in order to get other ones, for support.
- First need a town hall building. "Town Hall I" and it can support 5 buildings.
- Then need a food source to feed the town. Build a farm, ranch or fishing dock. 1 food building can support 5-10 NPCs??? Food gets stored too.
- Then can build what ever the guild wants to focus on: tavern, barracks, magic, market, walls, roads, etc.
Would use large buildings images.
[attach=1]
This was my plan in V6. Already had a lot coded. Mayors could open up a little town editor and define the layout. Then players bought deeds and built at the spot and earned Prestige.
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I hate that you removed custome houses for these generic bull crap. Slowly destroying the game. One terrible idea at a time.
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I hate that you removed custome houses for these generic bull crap. Slowly destroying the game. One terrible idea at a time.
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while i may not like the sprites for the houses, i don't get the hate for the idea. (maybe the idea of roofs in rpgwo just seems weird, hah, that, or the perspective shift)
as far as the guild town using that, (this suggestion hinges on the use of some sort of timed raid script to keep the players maintaining the town):
[either the buildings themselves being destructible by monsters (maybe have the npcs that occupy the building appear at the warp point upon destruction? or warp then die?) or have the raid monsters scripted to move towards the entrances and then kill the npcs after entering]
on the whole I like it though, guessing since you said "town hall I" has 5 building support, you'll be able to upgrade them, (some sort of usage on the building itself? skill+materials?)
would be a nice way to improve the npcs "output"
Will there be some sort of check for some buildings? like a limit to the amount of town halls or something else there can be per guild(or per guild land plot)
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Well, I don't need to use those big images that span like a 10x10 area. We can use some kinda special item for each building. Like a town hall has a mayors desk. A farm has a grain mill. A pub has a bar. A fishery has a dock, etc. The system would just need to way to know what is where and if it is functional.
Yes, the buildings would be upgradable to like II , III , IV, etc.
Not sure why Gimpy saying I removed anything. I haven't done any coding yet. We just sharing ideas, yo.
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having an item represent it would work well, seems like it would make it easier to organize the town like the player wants.
e: or a group of items in a limited area? like a bar + barrel of beer +.... for a pub, or something like that
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i like the idea, but i would go smaller...
town hall 1 should do like 2 buildings max...
ppl in rpgwo are likely to go for the things that offer more benefit a blacksmith or a tool guy offers alot more than a tavern..
i think it would also b nice if a fully upgraded townhall will not support all the buildings, (say all but 2) this will help create a need for ppl to venuture to a 2nd town
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i like the idea, but i would go smaller...
town hall 1 should do like 2 buildings max...
ppl in rpgwo are likely to go for the things that offer more benefit a blacksmith or a tool guy offers alot more than a tavern..
i think it would also b nice if a fully upgraded townhall will not support all the buildings, (say all but 2) this will help create a need for ppl to venuture to a 2nd town
or a limit to the total number of upgrades that can be done in a single guild town? or cap the amount of optimally upgraded npcs, would have a similar effect
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so isn't this sort of what I was suggesting (http://rpgwoforums.net/index.php?topic=4916.msg77285#msg77285) and you didn't like? you just removed the town defenses part I mentioned, and made different buildings instead of just upgrading the town...
as to what Gimpy means its the floating predefined houses/buildings. you had them in the original V3 and not many people liked them then either.
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Exactly, making your house custome made out of differently materials. Going around uneven turrain, water and ore you cant mine was what made rpgwo unique.your slowly making it generic
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Exactly, making your house custome made out of differently materials. Going around uneven turrain, water and ore you cant mine was what made rpgwo unique.your slowly making it generic
I'm still a little confused, you can still build walls the standard way, the dimensional warp huts just add extra space.
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It just feels corny. No need to be confused. Its my opinions, and its only worth what you value it at. If you dont feel the same then thats perfectly acceptable.
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that was my confusion, your statements made it seem like you were against it because of it removing options/simplifying things, when it just adds a dimensional shed type thing, and i agree... somewhat, the sprites feel disjointed from the rest of rpgwo, but I like the concept, and can deal with the sprites
E: hard to say if I'll actually like it or not after playing with it, but far too early to say for now I think. I'll probably end up just walling it off so I don't have to look at the sprite, hah.
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I would rather just use a marking item unless having that extra little map, like in the town hall for example, for meetings and storage, etc. , guilds find an advantage in.
At this point, don't care is sprites don't match... they haven't in over ... 15 years??? heh
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The sprites don't fit the aesthetic of the game but I do like the idea of designating areas for specific purposes. I don't think a special item or housing is even a necessity for such a feature as you could simply allow guilds (or whatever type of group you create to allow for town building) a limited number of designations for each type of zone they want to create. For example the guild leader stands at X, Y, Z coordinates and designates the surrounding area to be the town hall, smithy, fishery, dock, etc. and then those areas would allow for the related items and structures to be built upon the land.
Also the idea of instanced zones seems like a step backwards, an entirely open world with little to no instances is something many games strive for but fail to do so since you've already pretty much done it to go back on that just doesn't seem like the right direction. Quest maps appearing in an instanced zone with no other way to get them except for a warp or something is not really a big deal though as all players end up in the same instance in that scenario anyways.
In any case, what this game has been lacking for a long time is reasons for players to actually get together and work with each other towards a common goal and to that end I really like the idea of the players building towns themselves. In my opinion though this should be something that occurs in the mid to late game so that in the early game you first have players working on forming their own personal land plots and guilds and those who choose to build near each other can then work on forming a township. One of the main reasons I detest servers allowing for multiple characters is it gives them even less reason to work with other players since they have the means to do everything themselves so you could even go as far as requiring specialization in certain areas in order to better build and utilize the specialty zones when they are designated.
An example of how this might work between multiple guilds forming a single township could be something like, if only one guild forms a township then they are only allowed to designate X amount of zones. The very first zone being the town hall which allows for further expansion of the town. If two guilds form an alliance and build a town together then the town hall can be upgraded and essentially this allows for double the amount of zones to be designated, in turn a bigger town can be built and perhaps even new designations that a single guild formed town would not have access to (or at the very least would not have access to without a greater amount of work in comparison). And so on.
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remember the signs we've been using for years? there are already different pics for different shops, so have a member of the guild build a shop(same building things as always) then hang a sign to determine what it is. these buildings shouldn't take up an entire 10X10 plot either(still don't like that size), but should have several buildings in 1 plot. I'm thinking maybe 5X5 so you can build 4 shops in 1 plot...
ie:
-a farm would just be a fenced off area with plowed land and something growing, with a sign on the fence.
-a bakery would be a small room with ovens in it and a sign with a loaf of bread on the wall near the door.
-a forge(weapons, armor, or both) would be a small room with an anvil and a coal pit(or furnace if you're still using that) and a sign.
-a normal trader shop would just need counters and maybe some decorative items...knives and sides of meat for a butcher, gems and gold for a jeweler, cauldrons(I know you said no to this) for an alchemist, and so on and so forth with a sign to determine what the shop sales.