Author Topic: Building Towns and NPCs  (Read 2130 times)

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Offline Mickey Kudlo

Building Towns and NPCs
« on: April 20, 2015, 06:02:41 pm »
My inspiration is a basic RTS game, like Age of Empires, with also sim-like features. Dynamic in that players affect growth for better or worse.

Initially the world has no towns or NPCs to interact with. Players need to build it all. Keep in mind, plots are 10x10 now.

Here is a kind of walk thru...

The first thing players need to do is build a Town Hall. Find a plot, clear it out, goto Build tab, select Town Hall, then click Build button. It will popup asking for a city name. Enter it, hit OK. Then it places a single "building" item (maybe a construction sign?) in the middle of the plot. The system checks to make sure the name is not in use plus no other town hall is within a range, say 2 sectors. Maybe it checks that its plot and surrounding is all flat?

Players double click on the "building sign" item and it opens build tab and gives info like what resources are needed and how much work is needed to build it. Plus it shows the name. Names need approval from 5 players. So an approve, dis-approve button is there for the name. Towns can be rename-able later after built too I guess, with a vote or via admin then can be locked.

Player sees a town hall needs 100 wood plank and 25 nails (any ore type). They drag 10 planks from their inventory to the sign and gain some Prestige. Eventually, enough resources put into the "build sign" then work can be done. It requires 1000 work to complete. Player uses hammer on the sign with carpentry and does 1 work per stamina per real second. Maybe for every 10 skill, 1 extra work point. So carpentry of 20, does 3 points of work per second, per stamina. Doing work also gains prestige.

After 2618763 real hours, the Town Hall building is complete, assuming 5 other players approved the name. The system adds the town hall map (made by an admin in an editor) to the 10x10 plot. Oh, and buildings can be 20x20 or any size really. So maybe a town hall is better as 20x20 so it has meeting space, life stone, job/quest board and stuff. Then the system adds an NPC to run the town hall. NPC would be dynamically named and can be killed but respawn like players and can gain XP and level up. But if their life stone is destroyed... they are perm dead.

At this point, all other buildings are strictly placed, meaning they follow a pattern.
 - Like the front door must be connected to a road.
 - Must be in certain range of town hall.
 - Must buy a building deed (roads and other non-shops are free) to be able to start building  but when done, you own the building and can rent it out to NPC or sell it or run it your self

So player is like all "yeah, me good, me build more" so they move to the front of the town hall and open build tab, find road (free to build) and click Build. It shows that it requires 20 stone and 250 work. They put 20 stone in and then use masonry to build a road. BTW, roads reduce stamina cost when running.

Then they go buy a town deed and go south of the road. Open build tab, find General Store, click build. It checks road and town requirements then takes your deed and adds the Building sign. You own it but others can put in supplies and work to earn prestige... maybe... maybe it a rights thing then that the player can control. The General Store requires 30 wood plank and 10 nails for the 10x10 plot. The player gives the resources and does the work and the General Store map gets added. No NPC added yet.

Player clicks on Land tab and sees the General Store listed. They click on it and info is displayed like money earned, items in stock (nothing now), items to buy and the max price, money in register, etc. Player can manage stock and prices and hire/fire NPC, rent it out or sell it. Player clicks on hire NPC and finds an NPC with a decent Barter skill and hires them. The system adds the NPC to the shop. They double click NPC on the map and "sells" over a bunch of food items for free since they the owner. Player checks the Land tab and sets the price for the food and also gives it some money and set it to buy food at 10% of the value.

OK, so I am totally projectile vomiting my idea out but you get the idea of what I am shooting for. Players would also not be the only customers... NPC would buy/sell crap too. I don't know if they would walk around doing it but some kinda dynamic NPC need of players is my goal. Depending on how the players support a town would determine NPC growth. NPCs would also come on their own and interact.

This I think is a huge, radical idea, that I think would separate RPGWO from the millions of other online RPGs.
... or I can put my head down and sleepy sleep.

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Offline Greatest

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Re: Building Towns and NPCs
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2015, 06:48:07 pm »
I think with an idea like that we would never have any towns!  I also think it would ruin V6, the same way it did V3. 

also:
-there will never be 5 people who agree on a name
-most people who have the skills to build this stuff are going to be working on their own homes
-prestige sucks since it never got you anything
-if new players start and have no town or basics they won't stick around long

on a personal note, if I build a town I'd want to own it, not have some npc running it.  I could see an alternative to this being 1 small start town that can be improved by players if they want(I doubt it would happen), and allow guilds to build towns.  guild would own the town it builds and give more of a purpose to being in guilds besides the extra xp(which is the only reason to be in a guild now).
why does Fox keep cancelling good shows?

Offline Naed

Re: Building Towns and NPCs
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2015, 06:56:22 am »
I strongly agree with the guilds owning towns.

The guild plot being the town. Maybe rename guilds to community? That way it reflects the fact its a town and a guild?

Once there are five members in a guild, give the leader the option to found a new town? This is also a good way to manage the size of the towns. As additional members join the town might grow become expandable? And shrinks with the loss of those new members (given some time of course)?

I'm not a fan of selecting preset building for any purpose. I'ts my/our time and effort, an I want it to reflect myself.

The drag and drop functionality of rpgwo is not what appeals to people, it's the complete uniqueness of each home that does.

Offline Mongo

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Re: Building Towns and NPCs
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2015, 09:17:49 am »
2618763 hours? Wtf?

That aside, I'm not completely opposed to the idea. Couple points:

  • I like what Naed said - have the towns start from guilds. It just kinda works.
  • Pre-fabricated buildings I think kinda destroy uniqueness. I think it would be best to find another way to define a "building". Have the player somehow assign a building they create wall-by-wall to be the "town hall". Worst case scenario, at least let players customize the interiors.
  • I realize the above goes against the building sign construction mode. Maybe you could do something like.. whoever is planning the town essentially "draws" the walls for the building. They layout the floor plan for the town hall. When they're done, they press "Go" and the construction sign is plopped down, requiring more resources based on what was planned. From there, everyone can add resources to it to help it get built. I still think people should do the actual building, but maybe they can only do it where the plans are laid. Players could also see a ghost version of the completed building. Here's what I had in mind:
  • "Then the system adds an NPC to run the town hall." Do you mean .. when the player is not there actively running it? I'd love to see some kind of government player-run hierarchy, and it might make sense to have NPC's that could function in their stead.
  • I think this should start .. uhh .. prior to making a "town hall". What if there were different tiers and the players must upgrade them. So you start out with a player land plot. They put whatever on it. The player then gets 5 people together and they upgrade the land plot to a "settlement". The land claim area grows, the original player is given the title of "mayor", a central building (or maybe just a flag) is placed. The 5 players must then do something, gather resources, more players, get NPC's, I don't know. But they should be able to build up the little settlement. Then, when they're ready, they build a town hall (where the flag was) and a town is established. Then maybe down the line they can upgrade it to "city". For each tier, the distance needed to be away from another one increases. So, lets say you want to upgrade to a city but there's a town too close that is blocking you. You would either need to persuade the town to join you or force them to submit, possibly by force.
  • Can a player not build within a certain distance of the town hall? If a player does want to build near a town, can they buy a deed from the town? What happens if a town is plopped down next to a house a player already has, are they grandfathered in?
Shoop!

Offline Naed

Re: Building Towns and NPCs
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2015, 09:42:15 am »
How this is moving in a great direction.

I don't know if you saw the connection, but many Facebook games force you to get friends to play in order to advance. This growing town idea does just that.

Also Mongo's drawing out your structures seems a fair compromise for uniqueness, even if they are styled the same, and each structure has the same entryway sign as to keep things familiar and not repetitive.

If I log out in some town, the instant I login, I should recognize where I am without looking at cords or sector.


The traders in a town should be moderately difficult to get. Perhaps the first is relatively simple, but the following should increase steeply. My thought is if one town has all traders, no other towns will be visited.

My though of difficulty:
A NPC Blacksmith: Requires 500-1000 Iron Ore (maybe just ores?), 100 coal, 100 staves, 50 Brick, and a signing fee, and town of sufficient size to support one. Remember towns require five people to form, so the resource list is fairly small when split among five.

Should NPC Traders should pay the town rent based on profits? They must have benefit to the creator or why make one?

NPC Traders should take an individual a week's dedicated work to get.
Why? The quicker we achieve milestones, the quicker we quit.

Offline Mickey Kudlo

Re: Building Towns and NPCs
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2015, 01:00:40 pm »
We can have the admin do final name approval or none at all but give admin ability to change the name.

Guild ownership is good but should be an option not the absolute. Otherwise it will be almost impossible to get enough money to even form a guild. Most monsters will not be dropping money but themselves and you'll need to sell the parts someplace, probably.

I can see players drawing the plans up. My thinking was consistency: people would recognize a blacksmith in any town. Would have requirements for being able to designate a building as something. Like a blacksmith needs a furnace and anvil and a blacksmith sign and a NPC stand spot, etc.

Big maps, 2000-4000, and limited warping will bring value to having towns spread out.

Yes, you can claim land near a town hall or inside the limits and build whatever you want. Cities may charge taxes though to pay for guards and stuff.

I never finished coding prestige before so we will see what value it has. Since NPC will be more active, Prestige and charisma will play a role in affecting them.

Having stages of towns sounds interesting: Settlement -> Village -> Town -> City. Each stage supports different size of land and amount of NPCs. Each time you upgrade the town hall.

The NPC's that get added are dynamically named and stats allocated, like players. The monster.ini file will not have listings for all the available NPCs. Maybe just for story, specific related ones.

Players basically make a town so they have a place to go buy/sell crap. And not sure where player traders come in. Maybe hiring a NPC to run your shop, replaces that feature.
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Offline Mongo

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Re: Building Towns and NPCs
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2015, 01:54:33 pm »
My thinking was consistency: people would recognize a blacksmith in any town.

Maybe when they draw up the plans, the doorway (which will need to be connected to a road) will basically define the building. So people can customize the building almost completely except they need to include a prefabricated 1x3 doorway. The doorway would be

[SIGN][DOOR][SIGN]

With the sign having an anvil on it or something.

In this way, every building can look unique but can be easily identifiable.
Shoop!

Offline Greatest

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Re: Building Towns and NPCs
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2015, 05:46:24 am »
Players basically make a town so they have a place to go buy/sell crap.
;D this means more player interactions when there aren't any towns...guess you solved an issue some people hate!

from the other thread:
My idea is basically a new continent or part of the world has been discovered and players/npc coming from the mainland to explore, colonize and exploit it.
I like that idea, so whats wrong with having a damaged ship(had to get there somehow) near a dock with a few npcs to start?  the captain would be a good way to start a few basic quests since his ship is damaged, also there could be some competing companies(I'm thinking something like the dutch east india company) at the dock for a few starter things.  you can also have players build up the dock from just a small jetty into a proper harbor or small fortress.  the larger it is the more ships that visit and more npcs to be used.

this fits with your ideas, but still gives a game run starter area and would allow other towns to be player run.

also I'm going to agree with Naed and Mongo, we want our unique buildings!  maybe allow building to be the way it always was, but need a road near the door for a building to be used by an npc?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 05:49:19 am by Greatest »
why does Fox keep cancelling good shows?

Offline Greatest

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Re: Building Towns and NPCs
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2015, 05:55:50 am »
double post :P
also there could be some competing companies(I'm thinking something like the dutch east india company) at the dock for a few starter things.  you can also have players build up the dock from just a small jetty into a proper harbor or small fortress.  the larger it is the more ships that visit and more npcs to be used.
by that I meant if you work with 1 company the other company wouldn't like you quite as much.  you can keep working with 1 company to get higher and higher relationships with them and better rewards from the quests...but once you reach a certain level with 1 company you can't work with its main competitor at all.  which will work against you if a town gets too small and 1 of the companies leaves, possibly forcing you to move to another town.
why does Fox keep cancelling good shows?

 

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